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A Nonny Moose

Well, the ISS may soon have a neighbor.

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Space Race 2: China vs. India :P

It seems China still thinks space is about politics, these days it's mainly scientific research. If they only waited another ten or so years they cold take the reigns on the ISS, NASA and others are looking to de-orbit it then, maybe it would be better to sell it?

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Now this will be interesting to watch. I wonder if there will be commerce between the two stations?

Hah ha! commerce is almost certainly out of the question... Space agencies have a tendency of using their own propriatery docking systems, and this seems to be the case again here. The "Docking technology" that they make such a fuss about isn't the guidence or control system, it's the airlock! If you can guide a spacecraft into a specific controlled orbit, you already have most of the guidance tech needed for docking. The technology needed for the approach and actual joining of the two craft is no more complicated than that of an assymbly line robot combined with something resembling a commercial aircraft ALS or even a homing missle system. The only real challenge is having the mechanical parts function properly in orbit to lock together two different chunks of metal built and launched at two different times.

In my own opinion, this seems like a reattempt at Mir on the part of the Chinese.... To them I would say "Yeah it's a big challenge, and it's neat, but I'm sorry, it's already been done! "


  Edited by Ronwe  

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In order for China to out-do the US in terms of spacey stuff, sure they've got to start somewhere... I mean, others have done the same before, but this is only a step towards more advanced stuff. I half expect the next man on the moon to have the red flag sewn on his sleeve. Not because China has superior technology, but because they want to go to the moon. They will benefit more from going there (propaganda) than the US these days. In today's financial climate, proposing to spend billions on re-visiting our orbiting neighbour is a good way not to become re-elected.

As for India, it seems like they're going to use their resources to fix things on the surface before going skyward.

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Hah ha! commerce is almost certainly out of the question... Space agencies have a tendency of using their own propriatery docking systems, and this seems to be the case again here. The "Docking technology" that they make such a fuss about isn't the guidence or control system, it's the airlock! If you can guide a spacecraft into a specific controlled orbit, you already have most of the guidance tech needed for docking. The technology needed for the approach and actual joining of the two craft is no more complicated than that of an assymbly line robot combined with something resembling a commercial aircraft ALS or even a homing missle system. The only real challenge is having the mechanical parts function properly in orbit to lock together two different chunks of metal built and launched at two different times.

They've got Russian stuff by all accounts so it should actually fit.

However, one has to realize that space is different to ground. even if the stations are 50km apart vertically, its not easy at all to move between them.

In my own opinion, this seems like a reattempt at Mir on the part of the Chinese.... To them I would say "Yeah it's a big challenge, and it's neat, but I'm sorry, it's already been done! "

Yes but its something they've never done, they've gotta start somewhere. and that somewhere sure as hell can't be to advanced otherwise stuff is bound to go wrong.

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  • Original Poster
  • Will probably never get done but Airlocks for space stations should all

    be standardized.

    I don't think the ISO mandate extends that far above the atmosphere, but you are right. If vehicles from different stations can't dock with each other, what if one of them runs out of air and the other can supply it? What are they supposed to do? Play toss the tank?

    As for getting from one station to another, it isn't as if they had to overcome the entire gravity well. It is just a matter of having enough reaction mass, and space is full of it especially in NEO.

    If China is going to blow Yuan going into space, let them. I hope they will be able to avoid all the junk up there. If we want to stop them, all we have to do is stop buying their sub-standard junk.

    One of the things I had hoped would happen with the ISS was that they would begin construction on an Libration Point station. Having a station at, say, L5 would be a real kick-off for further exploration of the solar system, It is probably our only chance to get colonization of space going.

    Stations in NEO can't help but suffer orbital decay and crash eventually.


      Edited by A Nonny Moose  

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    Interesting. Is this an international collaboration like MIR and the ISS? Or is this just solely a Chinese project?

    Will probably never get done but Airlocks for space stations should all

    be standardized.

    I don't think the ISO mandate extends that far above the atmosphere, but you are right. If vehicles from different stations can't dock with each other, what if one of them runs out of air and the other can supply it? What are they supposed to do? Play toss the tank?

    As for getting from one station to another, it isn't as if they had to overcome the entire gravity well. It is just a matter of having enough reaction mass, and space is full of it especially in NEO.

    If China is going to blow Yuan going into space, let them. I hope they will be able to avoid all the junk up there. If we want to stop them, all we have to do is stop buying their sub-standard junk.

    One of the things I had hoped would happen with the ISS was that they would begin construction on an Libration Point station. Having a station at, say, L5 would be a real kick-off for further exploration of the solar system, It is probably our only chance to get colonization of space going.

    Stations in NEO can't help but suffer orbital decay and crash eventually.

    True true. Which is why Germany is doing particularly well in an economy like this. Not everyone likes China's substandard junk. :lol:

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  • Original Poster
  • This is solely a Chinese project if I'm not mistaken (unless you count other countries being involved by buying Chinese products :P)

    Would certainly put a crimp in their efforts if the international trade money started to dry up, eh?

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    This is solely a Chinese project if I'm not mistaken (unless you count other countries being involved by buying Chinese products :P)

    Would certainly put a crimp in their efforts if the international trade money started to dry up, eh?

    I suppose so :P

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    I honestly don't see the point in a station at the Lagrangian points. Firstly, they're no more stable for an object than at LEO as far as i know (you would still need to station keep), secondly they're much more difficult to get to... or more importantly, get back to earth from. Thirdly... there probably isn't much of a benefit being there than there would be just leaving from LEO anyway.

    If we want to stop them, all we have to do is stop buying their sub-standard junk.

    :whatevs:

    I suppose you have maple syrup for breakfast every day, eh?

    (see, i can make stereotypical generalizations too!)

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  • Original Poster
  • The point about the Lagrange points is that they are stable, and they are out of most of the atmosphere. Not as much fuel expenditure is needed to hold a station in place. They are also far enough out, that they encourage people to stay there and become a colony. If we are not going to put a settlement on the moon, then that is the next best place. Of course, the only resources there are the various bits of micrometeorites going by and the pervasive hydrogen. Things are pretty thin there. Maybe having the regolith on the moon would be a more useful supply.

    If getting there was easy, there would be no point in going there, now would there? Mankind seems to have turned inward and lost its pioneering spirit. Must be that population and political pressure is not enough yet.


      Edited by A Nonny Moose  

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    ^I think it's more that we've started to look back and realise that we can't keep going while doing the mistakes we used to. It might appear that we were a lot more focused on the future in the sixties, pushing boundaries and sending people to all the planetoids we could get our hands on.

    We remember politicians saying "by the end of this decade" and actually pulling it off. We remember colour-TV footage of flashy rockets sending national heroes on a wondorous adventure to the moon. But "One giant leap for mankind" was made in a time when democracies were overturned in bloody revolutions because their leaders tried to cooperate with certain countries in the East. American corporations killed people in Latin America because they wouldn't sell their land for fruit plantations. A certain Martin Luther King, jr. was shot because he suggested that people shouldn't care as much about other people's skin colour. State leaders were ready to sacrifice millions of people's lives at half an hour's notice to prevent the "wrong side" from gaining influence. Not to mention what we did to our poor old buddies Atmosphere and Ocean without second thoughts (though, many might say that the second thoughts is the only thing to have changed).

    Also, there's no Big Red Enemy to race against this time. There is a Big Red, yes, but he's lagging so far behind that the leaders of the race are becoming bored. And he's no Enemy either, so it's not as important anyway.

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    Those poor astronauts; they will most likely die of lead poisoning, or some sort of crazy, inhumane experiment gone wrong.

    So if an American Space Man is an Astronaut, and a Soviet one a Cosmonaut, what do you call a Chinese one?

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    Ninjanaut

    yes i know Ninja were Japanese but it rhymes.

    they will study the weightless martial arts.

    Which might not be a bad idea anyway, some how the treadmill excerise

    they do dont seem to be the right approach for space.


      Edited by Easy Bakes  

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    Those poor astronauts; they will most likely die of lead poisoning, or some sort of crazy, inhumane experiment gone wrong.

    So if an American Space Man is an Astronaut, and a Soviet one a Cosmonaut, what do you call a Chinese one?

    Apparently they're called Taikonauts... (Taikong means space in Chinese)

    and get this: they already sent 'Taikonauts' into space...

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