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AND93

Portuguese Presidential Elections 2011

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According to the first polls published by tv channels, Incumbent President Anibal Cavaco Silva will be reelected in the first round (needs more than 50%)

Anibal Cavaco Silva - (51%-58%) - Christian Democrat/Liberal

Manuel Alegre - (17%-22%) - Social-Democrat/Socialist

Fernando Nobre - (12%-16%) - Independent (Doctor, founder of AMI)

Francisco Lopes - (6%-10%) - Marxist-Leninist

José Manuel Coelho - (2%-5%) - Euroscepticist (considered the "election clown")

Defensor Moura - (1%-2%) - Social-Democrat (Member of Socialist Party, which is actually Social-Democrat, but that party supports Manuel Alegre)

I as a portuguese citizen consider myself biased, but I believe this is a terrible choice. I remind that Anibal Cavaco Silva was prime-minister in the 1990's, and measures taken in his time are being felt now.

I have to confess that my vote went to Fernando Nobre, but I'm here only to annonce results and see what foreigners have to say about this election

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  • Original Poster
  • Also I forgot to say that Manuel Alegre is also supported by two Far-Left parties and most people including me, believe that it has influenced his result in a negative level

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    Originally posted by: AND93

    I as a portuguese citizen consider myself biased, but I believe this is a terrible choice. quote>

    I don't know much about these guys but I agree the choices don't sound good.

    Marxist-Leninist?   Really?   What are those percentages?  Percentages of the vote they are expected to get?

    Euroscepticist -- okay, that appears to be what it sounds like, someone not happy about the EU.  I can see there can be pros and cons to that.

    Christian Democrat -- that's a political party?   As a firm believer in separation of church and state, that just sounds creepy to me.

    I have to confess that my vote went to Fernando Nobre, but I'm here only to annonce results and see what foreigners have to say about this electionquote>

    Going independent sounds good to me (I'm registered as such myself) but what is he advocating?   How is he different from the other guys?

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    I had no idea Portugal was having an election. I have no idea who any of these people are or what their policies are. So, I don't know what to think. (and I think I speak for most of the other 300 million Americans as well when I say this. 3.gif)

    But anyways... what we need is to have some questions answered so we know what we're talking about. I've got a few:

    - What is the background of the Christian Democrat party?

    - Are they always the dominant party or is this election an exception?

    - What measures were taken by Anibal Silva in the 90's that are being felt now?

    - What is AMI?

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    Well, even living in Spain, which is Portugal's neighbour; I know barely nothing about the election there... As far as I've heard on the news, the politicians have been trying to avoid a large abstention, that could go beyond the 50%.

    But definately, Cavaco has had to do something good to have such a large difference of votes between the Christian Democrat party and the Social Democrats...

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    You'll notice a lot of fringe candidates.  Your point about people not voting at all is well taken.  Voter apathy seems to be a world wide disease.

    I can hardly believe that there is enough support for a Maxist-Leninist candidate to get on the ballot but I suppose there must a lunatic fringe in every country.

    I await the requested clarifications.

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  • Original Poster
  • so iI'm back to reply to everything: first I'm going to explain all about this:

    Cavaco Silva - He is a member of the Social-Democratic Party, but this party is not really social-democratic, but liberal in economy and christian in politics. (even though he allowed gay marriage without a referendum). He is also supported by the People's Party, and that one is definetely Christian Democrat. That ideology is closer to his politics although Ribeiro Castro, a member of this party was planning on a candidature due to Cavaco's decision of allowing gay marriage. This did not happen.

    Manuel Alegre - He is a member of the Socialist Party, this party is actually the Social Democratic party in Portugal (Center-Left). This party has won the majority of elections in Portugal but Manuel Alegre has proved to be an unpopular candidate. This happened because he had already ran for President in 2006 as an independent, and he got in front of his party's candidate (Mario Soares, first democratic prime-minister of Portugal). This time he was seen as a money chaser. So he had even less votes. Also, he led a degradant campaign, because all of it was dedicated to show how bad were his opponents, and not good was he. He is a poet by the way.

    Fernando Nobre - He is a doctor, he founded Assistencia Medica Internacional (Medical Internation Assistence), a non-profit, non-governmental organization which has been in wars like Kosovo, Darfur and tragedies like the 2004 Tsunami. He is mostly a center-left man, but he decided to run independently and reject every support to be free. He is a great man though I doubt his capacities to rule a country (but again, I voted in him because his election program was really good, and he was different, especially because his campaign showed his program and was not pejorative to other candidates)

    Francisco Lopes - A member of Portuguese Communist Party (Marxist-Leninist), he is a very nice and well-educated man, but he is a leftist so obviously he only has the usual votes of the PCP. (What I like about this party is that they always win somehow, even though they lose percentage every election...)

    José Manuel Coelho - Not really much a Euroscepticist, but he is more of the election clown. He only had a large ammount of votes in Madeira Island, his native region.

    Defensor Moura - Member of PS, as Manuel Alegre. He was the Mayor of Viana do Castelo for about 10 years, but he was definetely the last placed candidate in this election.

    Now about the PSD, the Christian Democratic Party. It started as a Social-Democratic party, like the name indicates, but in the first years, with so much left politicians in the parliament, people started to see it as a right-wing party. Now it's members are divided in Christian Democrats (like Cavaco Silva) and liberals. They are the 2nd party with more elections won in Portugal, right after PS (the real social-democratic party)

    And about Cavaco Silva's measures I'll have to talk about distributing money to factory owners without planning (they bought Ferraris... Now guess what? No industry left), lowering the taxes to the rich to the point where when Antonio Guterres took the government, the country's funds were a third of those Cavaco got when he entered (and Cavaco had the EU money in 1987). Measures like this were paid by others, but the most informed in Portugal know that obviously this was caused by him. Still he is very popular in here, and so he got the results that he got.

    And to TekindusT, I believe this difference was overall caused because Manuel Alegre is truly unpopular... Also, in my honest opinion, I believe that he is closer to true socialism than to his center-left party)

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  • Original Poster
  • Oh and of course here are the final results:

    Anibal Cavaco Silva: 52,9%

    Manuel Alegre: 19,8%

    Fernando Nobre: 14,1%

    Francisco Lopes: 7,1%

    José Manuel Coelho: 4,5%

    Defensor Moura: 1,6%

    Abstention: 53,37 (The real winner 3.gif)

    And surely the Marxist-Leninist support can easily be explained.

    You see, from 1926 to 1933 there was a Military led right wing government. After it in 1933, Salazar took the power, and he created the Estado Novo regime. That regime ended only in 1974, 41 years after it's beginning (4 after Salazar's death and 6 after he left the power due to disease)

    This was a right-wing dictatorship, where people like Manuel Alegre were tortured, imprisoned and like he was, exiled (in his case, that wasn't so bad cause he went to Paris, Alvaro Cunhal (Marxist-Leninist) spent an eternity in jail, and his predecessor Bento Gonçalves died in Tarrafal.

    So many old people (specially over 65 yo) still remember the repression and they still see the PCP as the freedom movement, the one who took Portugal out of the Estado Novo (which aint true, Salgueiro Maia, one of the revolution leaders used to belong to center-right for example).

    That is why PCP is still Marxist-Leninist and is still so popular.

    You may not believe this but the Portuguese current constitution (1976) still agrees that the country should work to become a socialist state 3.gif

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  • Original Poster
  • OH I forgot to mention

    To Meg: This Christian Democrats are quite close to American Republicans. They believe in separation of church and state (no official religion). They simply propose the government to adopt christian values (which I can actually accept even being an atheist). It was founded to avoid corruption, and be a right-wing alternative to social-democrats, but they are actually the most corrupt ones in here... I think the most famous case in power of a christian-democrat is the German one. Angela Merkel is the pure christian-democrast idealist (let's just hope she follows the ideals and not the cash) 

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    Enlightening.  At least you have more to vote for than the parties of sweetness and light or light and sweetness.  Your democracy after Salazar is enlightened and refreshing.  Although you are suffereing from the universal disease of voter apathy, it is good to see that you are all surviving in what I would call a liberal democracy.  Good luck to all.

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  • Original Poster
  • eh... we only have 2 winning parties (6 in the parliament) because others have almost no votes making it a center-right vs center-left democracy...

    still pretty liberal and with competition rising again in times of crisis

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    Sorry, I was using the term liberal in its generic sense, not to refer to any political stripe.  Isn't Englis a wonderful language?

    BTW:  It you are using a translator to do your posts

        then

          the program is very good

        else

          your English is very good.

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  • Original Poster
  • thank you. I use no translator, I just play way too much videogames and see movies without subtitles... It's the easy way to learn a language 3.gif

    and I also meant liberal in the generic sense, not in politics (but even if you happen to interpret it as such, that wouldn't be totally inaccurate)

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    Liberalism is one of those words than can be differently understood depending on where do you come from. I guess AND93 wanted to talk about a "liberal democracy", which is the same to say "constitutional democracy". But also the traditional meaning for this concept applied to politics is the ideas associated with higher individual freedom. Furthermore, in economics; liberalism (and the latter neoliberalism) can be the approach based in corporations, liberalized trade, open markets and this kind of stuff...

    As A Nonny Moose said above, English is truly wonderful. You guys have five different words to name a concept I could name with only one; all of them with its own nuances.

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  • Original Poster
  • yes, we have a liberal democracy, a law that respects human rights and freedom, and also a liberal economist party (PSD)

    thanks TekindusT, I just wasn't able to explain it right.

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    And just to make English even more mysterious it is full of homonyms.  These are words that have the same sound, may have the same spelling and totally different roots and meanings.  For example:

    The peer peered down the pier.

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