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micromanager

No Farms - no matter how much I try

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  • Original Poster
  • I have never encountered this problem before, but here it is. I have a city of about 100,000 (about 60 yrs old) on a large map. Needless to say, there is a lot of area still unfilled, and I wanted to dedicate a small corner of the map to a farming community. The problem is I have zero demand for agricultural zones, even though there are many places in my city with high desirability for farming zones. Even weirder is that I recently started a neighboring city (its about 4 yrs old) and its demand for agricultural zones is really high. My questions:

    Is the demand for agricultural zones in a city linked to population, so after your city reaches a certain size, you can't have farms anymore?

    If not, how can I increase demand for farms in my 100,000 people city? (I've already tried lowering taxes, they are currently at zero for farm zones)

    Thanks for any help.

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    you could try the radical ordinance mod which is found in the modds and downloads section. There is an ordinance included in that mod that vastly increases your demand for agriculture

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    Umm.. I'm pretty sure that if your sims get smart enough, thne they won't want farms, but high tech and manufacturing.

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    yes it all depends on how well educated your sims are, i wouldnt try teh radical ordinace mod, it can do some wierd and unpredictable things to your city.

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  • Original Poster
  • Thanks for your advice. I looked at the Radical Ordinance MOD, and it seems a little too wild for my taste. Are there any rewards or buildings that you've come across that increase demand for agriculture?

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    I suggest looking into the BSC/CSX Farms.Also as stated previous it has to do with your education and there I.Q.So if you want Farms I suggest keeping them stupid.

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    You better build the farms first, and then the city. Otherwise you will experience the phenomenon you are experiencing right now. The BSC/CSX farms won't help in that respect - no demand is no demand, no matter which lots you use.

    Your sims are probably way too well educated by now to demand farms.

    One possibility to get some demand back is by luring many new, poor and stupid sims into your city.

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  • Original Poster
  • Wow. I just tried EVERYTHING - dumbing down my city, using the Radical Ordinance MOD, etc. NOTHING worked. I can't believe it. Thanks for all your suggestions though. It seems my dreams of a nice countryside have kicked the bucket. 4.gif

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    Micro it ain't you it's the way they designed the game.

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    It's not the IQ that drops the demand. Once the population rises high enough, Ag demand tanks. Dumbing down your sims will just get you lots of dirty industry.

    -ACE

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    ag demand is actually a combination of education and wealth levels. only stupid R$ and R$$ will demand ag jobs, sounds bad but thats the way it is.

    If you have not totally given up on the ag areas then try this:

    start your ag city with low density 1x1 res lots. this will guarentee R$ and R$$ only. do not provide any education and you dont need water, fire or police coverage either. you may provide a hospital but that is not needed. once you start getting enough people you should start to see some ag demand. I actually have no idea if this will work in a region that is already established but its what I would I do. Heck, give it a try and let me know what happens!

    good luck.

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  • Original Poster
  • For the sake of everyone else's information, I will try to update people on the situation as I try new stuff to get my ag demand past zero. I can't restart my city, or go back in time, so my options are limited. So far, these are the results:

    > Increase demand by dumbing down population - Result: Ag demand stays at zero, dirty industry demand skyrockets

    > Increase demand artificially by downloading Radical Ordiance MOD -Result, Ag demand still stays at zero. My guess is MOD doesn't work if the demand is zero to begin with.

    >Increase demand by bulding neighboring city full of poor people (by lowering taxes on R$ and taxing the hell out of everyone else), and then connecting said poor city to 100,000 people city in an effort to induce demand for Ag jobs - Result, Ag demand STill stays zero. Once again, demand for dirty industry skyrockets.

    My guess is the following - Once my city reaches a certain population, poor people only like working in dirty industry jobs. I'm gonna keep trying, because I really want this countryside to develop, so if anyone else has any other ideas, I would greatly appreciate them. Thanks for all the help thus far!

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    I believe farms in the late game are not do-able.. this issue has been discussed before and farms are GREAT for kicking off a region and getting a small area going.. AND they will stay after the city grows as long as ...

    LOW POLUTION.. high air pollution from traffic or industry will kill farms ...

    DON"T DELETE em for any reason to get a re-grow.. I like to start large farms and cut down on em once things get going.. no real reason.. just habit.. if I subdivide a farm after a certain point I'll just be staring at yellow ground forever.. hehe..

    ONly way to keep em under the severe condition is to "HISTORICAL" them so they don't decay.. I have 350k regions with fine farms, but I know from experience that if I start fooling with the farms they will go *poof*.

    As a side note, I find that making smaller farms with some space between them makes a HUGE difference on water pollution problems too.. Large, close farms produce severe water pollution but if you break em up and spread em around, they are much less of a problem. Well that's my thoughts.. 4.gif Hope you're still having fun..

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    Originally posted by: SC4BOY I believe farms in the late game are not do-able.. this issue has been discussed before and farms are GREAT for kicking off a region and getting a small area going.. AND they will stay after the city grows as long as ...

    DON"T DELETE em for any reason to get a re-grow.. I like to start large farms and cut down on em once things get going.. no real reason.. just habit.. if I subdivide a farm after a certain point I'll just be staring at yellow ground forever.. hehe..

    quote>

    I made the "RE-Grow" mistake....                15.gif

    Yellow ground is all i was left with, so I made it a park

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    man, it sucks how this happens, but its unavoidable. I dont like farms in big cities anyways, because once they reach the maximum stage all those stupid Pedriana Plants starts popping up :-P

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    Agriculture is restricted by other business demand ie other industry and commercial. The more commercial and other industry you have in your city, the more agriculture is restricted. All other jobs in the city count against the agriculture demand cap. Even neighbour connections, which raise the cap, will not be able to keep pace (ie keep the Ag demand cap high). So if you want farming in a city, you can't really allow much in the way of other kinds of job. Otherwise you will need to do what you have done, and put your agriculture in a new neighbour city, where demand will still be high.

    The other things people have mentioned are also important, ie more educated sims will not want to work on farms. However I have had quite high populations in farming only cities, as long as I keep education low, and don't allow other job types.

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    If you manage to stay under the cap early in the city's development, you'll notice another phenomena as you build out. New R$ immigrants into the urban areas may start commuting out to the farm jobs, while farm Sims that have upgraded to R$$ (through a nearby education radius) will take city jobs. I've seen it happen frequently when a city tile upgrades to R$ apartments and the new undeducated arrivals find the I-D and CS$ jobs nearby already taken.

    I don't discourage this sort of thing, although I suppose I could make historical an R$ building on a farm property.

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    I had this happen on one of my cities at only 50k pop. A trick I use though is to have some easy 1x1 lots that are different textures (dirt, grass, etc.) and zone "parks" that look like farms. Takes a little more time but they still end up looking like farms from the region view.

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    i love farms so i allways start with them and make villages instead of big citys i think you can have a city linked from across the border lol but once you get high tech i think you lose the farms as others have said

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    There is one solution, I used before and it works. Erase all industry, specially the HTech, and de-zone so it won't pop back. When you reach a certain low level of that kind of industry (Htech and Manufacturing) your demand for Agricultural startts raising again, and eventually starts plopping all around. The Radical Ordinance, I've tried that, and even using that option of "Increase Agricultural Demand", it still doesn't work, while the Htech and Manufacturing Industru is present. Someone even mentioned that the minute you have some Htech Ind grown in your city, you won't have ever have any new farm growing. 2.gif

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    Originally posted by: Rayden  Someone even mentioned that the minute you have some Htech Ind grown in your city, you won't have ever have any new farm growing. 2.gifquote>
     

    That's not true.  I have high education and high Iq and hitech industry and can grow farms at will.  But then I started out with a farming  community before zoning for any other industry.  I also keep my population low and adjust my tax rate for farm growth.  I also use some mods to increase farm jobs and encourage farm growth.  High density and farms are not compatible.   In order to get larger populations in a farming community you need to decrease funding for education as you increase the population.  10.gif

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  • Original Poster
  • I tried...and I failed. I dezoned every last non-agricultural industrial zone, removed connections to other industrial cities, and zoned some more agriculture in a desirable place. What happened was essentially the Great Depression - no more jobs, people start leaving, etc. I even raised taxes on other industry types - they all decreased, but the Ag demand still stays stubbornly at zero.

    I have given up. Thanks for trying to help.

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    Originally posted by: micromanager I tried...and I failed. I dezoned every last non-agricultural industrial zone, removed connections to other industrial cities, and zoned some more agriculture in a desirable place. What happened was essentially the Great Depression - no more jobs, people start leaving, etc. I even raised taxes on other industry types - they all decreased, but the Ag demand still stays stubbornly at zero.

    I have given up. Thanks for trying to help.quote>

     

    The game goes in a natural progression from small towns to big cities.  Start out with farms and you can keep some of them , if your dilligent, as you grow your cities.  Going the opposite way is almost impossible.  Sims will not leave the city for farm jobs.  They'll just leave completely.  Deleting all your industry was a mistake.  Even with mostly farms I still have some hitech and medium industry to keep my sims happy.

    Sorry to hear what happened to your city.  Reverse your action and it will probably come back in time.  Next time build some farms first.  10.gif

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    ok, i just did a quick experiment with my CJ region. I have a region population of 700k with nearly 100k high tech jobs. I also have quite a few farm jobs around as well. I started a new city square with connections to both an agriculture city and a suburb with 100k people and 180EQ. I had maxed out farm demand.

    I then started another city square with connections only to cities with high population and high EQ but nothing in the city square itself and still had farm demand.

    I also started a city square out in the middle of no where and it had basic demand (little res, comm, ag and ID) (no connections anywhere). I did however start up a city I had already started playing (large map, 20k pop with medium density res and com) and it had no ag demand as I would expect mainly because the majority of the 20k pop is R$$$ and they dont like ag no matter how dumb they are.

    the theories of no ag demand after a certain population size or the presence of High Tech no longer holds water. although I do believe that the trick to keeping ag demand is to first start with some. I started my region with ag towns on the outskirts and grew more urban as I went inward.

    miromanager, if you are still reading this thread, if you have any cities left in your region that have no neighbor connections and have not yet been started then you may be able to build an ag town there and then blend your ag demand with your city demand as you move closer to the city center. I dont know what you region looks like though so that is the best advice I can give. and I am assuming that you are trying to start an ag town in a fresh city square and not in one that is already established.

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  • Original Poster
  • I'm still able to have farms in my region, it's just that I can't build (or there isn't any demand for) farm zones in my already developed city. As SamFlash said, it's probably because the game progresses naturally from small towns to large cities.

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    What I've figured out about farm demand is that EQ is only part of the picture. R$ sims, it seems, no matter how well educated, still demand farms. They no longer demand I-D, but do not demand I-HT. (They want I-M, instead.) As for commercial, I can get all kinds to grow even with only R$, but I think its a commercial synergy thing going on instead of the R$ demanding the higher wealth commercial.

    I think that more than just industry acts as a cap on farm demand.

    Just a few things:

    Desirability never equals demand. Ever. So no matter how green your map is on the desirability chart, you'll never get something without a demand.

    Have you, um, tried lowering taxes on farms in that city? Taxes effect demand caps specifically (which is for instance, why you can't make the rich appear just by starting a city with low R$$$ taxes...) and might solve your problem. In my experience, farm buildings are what give you taxes, and they range usually from 3.5$ to 8$ a month... so you won't be losing much by undertaxing them.

    In most cases, the 'progressions' that you see in SC4 are procedural and not arbitrary. So that, for instance, your city loses farm demand is part of the algorithm and how it responds to increases in the city's occupance. To wit, you can make the game do what you want (get farms in a bigger city) if you can figure out what is capping off the demand.

    Have you tried, also, the advanced query tool? (I think its NDEX) It will tell you with some accuracy (not sure how much) where you are in regards to caps/demand/occupance on these things.

    Here's my cheat to get things to regrow. Say you've got those subdivided farm zones, and you want them to grow, you've got demand and desirability is fine...

    Ctrl+Alt+Shift+God mode

    Go to god mode trees.

    Keep time running, and place the trees on and around the zone you want to grow/upgrade.

    Its not a perfect method, but it can work wonders especially in those industrial and residential areas that just refuse to upgrade.

    ---

    Have you tried moving all of that city's industry to another city?

    The worst thing that can happen for your demands is a loss in population; that small but positive demand will dip below zero.

    ---

    Note: I always play on cheetah speed... its a weird habit I got into while playing the Phoenix Coast. So, I think unless you're playing on cheetah speed the God Mode Trees effect will be too slow to notice.

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