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RCI, happiness and basic game rules are broken

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#1 Dyspho

Dyspho

Posted 18 March 2013 - 09:20 AM

First of all, this has been done in a normal game and NOT on a sandbox.

I wanted to test the possibilities of a residential only city, with no power, no water and no services, and try to understand the basic behaviour of the game.
The city is composed only by few high density roads and $ residential zones, nothing more.

Broken RCI rules
As many have noticed the RCI is currently broken.
The RCI bars indicate the need of workers/shops/jobs based on the current population needs. This can be considered OK.
However the RCI DOESN'T impact the amount of people wanting to join your city.
Building only residential areas, my Residential needs are now the lowest possible. However as much as I zone, new citizen will come.
Moreover, the speed at which they come is fixed and not influenced by RCI or even happiness.
If you have any free space in your city, new people will come. RCI doesn't matter, happiness doesn't matter, power/water/services doesn't matter.
They will always come at the same fixed rated.

Broken happinness rules
To keep your people happy some needs must be satisfied.
Some needs increase the happiness, some decrease it.
If you really satisfy one of the need increasing happiness, doesn't matter how much some other things decrease it, you can still be positive.
I'll try to be more clear with an example.
I have no power, no water and not any services in my city, then happiness is really negative.
However lowering taxes, makes people happy.
So if you lower the taxes enough, you can still make people happy doesn't matter how much unhappinness you generate on the other side.
With my broken city and low taxes, i can have full happiness, and a global hapinness rate varying between 75% and 80%.
This will allow all your building to grow to high density even in the worth living conditions.

Crime map

crimec.png

Health map
healthm.png

Happiness map
happinessz.png


Global happiness rate
happinessrate.png


Don't people leave ? Don't you have any trouble ?
Of course people leave my city because it's so bad.
Nobody leave because of no job, no shop or no money. This make them slightly unhappy but these factors are not important at all.
The amount of people leaving because of no power and no water is very low and can be ignored. water and power are not so important either.
Reaching around 400k people, health and then crime become a problem. A lot of people die and leave because of these very bad conditions.
However there is so many new citizen wanting to come to my city (even with the lowest RCI possible) that people leaving is not a problem and is compensated with the new incoming ones.
Keep in mind that new citizen will always come to your city doesn't matter what you do.
The important thing is to make sure there is at least more people incoming than leaving one.
The more people i have, the more troubles i have, the more people leave.
Then the growth rate slightly decrease with time. But the stupid RCI will always replenish my population, keeping my city growing.

Homeless map
homelessj.png


Other problem encountered
The only major problem encountered is fire.
With no education, no police and no fireman, fire is a real problem.
Moreover each time a building is in fire it will propagate to next ones. In such a case, most of your city will be burning.
Fire can really stop your city from growing.
To solve this problem, i had to create a foreign city to send me some fireman. This is the only service provided to my main city.
Currently i have 5 fireman solving all the troubles.

500k people ? what's about traffic ?
with no job, no shop and nowhere interesting to go, people have no reason to be in the streets.
My streets are close to empty. Only people in the street are homeless (a lot of them because of people leaving), new incoming citizens, and a lot of criminals going to do any criminal acts.
traffic is not a trouble with such a ghost city.

Conclusion
My current population is a bit over 500 000 citizens using roughtly 30% of the map.
With more time it could probably easily reach 1 or even 2 million. However this process need a lot of time so i didn't increased it more than that.

On top of all know bug such as pathfinding, traffic and others, basic simcity rules as RCI and happiness are currently so broken that the game is meaningless.
Basically you can do what you want, you can't fail a city.
Keeping a city growing is automatic and not based on how successful your city is.



#2 mekane

mekane

Posted 18 March 2013 - 02:20 PM

I couldn't get my city past 200k people... on top of that, it shrunk down to about 120k for no apparent reason - it even seems like the same building densities are still present as when it was at 200k.

 

so many broken game mechanics... and i get a bad feeling that fixes will be too complicated/costly.  think there's any hope?

 

this game has / had so much potential though, i still have fun playing it, even though it has massive bugs and broken mechanics...



#3 perablenta

perablenta
  • perablenta
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Posted 18 March 2013 - 02:51 PM

Think about it this way.
 
They are happy. But what can you do with that city except show it as an experiment? If you make another city, crime will go there. The work force can't go anywhere because you don't have power for transportation. Buildings will keep burning down.
 
So... 


#4 mekane

mekane

Posted 18 March 2013 - 02:57 PM

Think about it this way.
 
They are happy. But what can you do with that city except show it as an experiment? If you make another city, crime will go there. The work force can't go anywhere because you don't have power for transportation. Buildings will keep burning down.
 
So... 

 

Aren't the usual goals something like this though:

 

1) Make money

2) Have happy people

3) Have a lot of people

 

 

So I feel like my hard work trying to achieve these goals in a high service city is kind of pointless when this crappy city already has attained those goals.



#5 perablenta

perablenta
  • perablenta
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Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:13 PM

My idea is to build something that I like. To create something new and to have fun doing it.

 

Having money and the population being happy is a fraction of that. And since they population numbers are not real anyway it doesn't mater how many of them you have.

 

But then again, that is just me.



#6 Gulch

Gulch
  • Gulch

Posted 21 March 2013 - 07:31 AM

Basically you can do what you want, you can't fail a city.
 

I think this is what they wanted... kinda like a facebook game where anyone can play it, and succeed. 

The more people that succeed, the more micro-transactions they can make, which means more money for EA.

Where EA failed, thinking that the Sim City fanbase was a bunch of mindless fools.


Edited by CaptCity, 21 March 2013 - 11:11 PM.
Language...


#7 Barkbiten

Barkbiten
  • Barkbiten

Posted 21 March 2013 - 10:33 AM

My idea is to build something that I like. To create something new and to have fun doing it.

 

Having money and the population being happy is a fraction of that. And since they population numbers are not real anyway it doesn't mater how many of them you have.

 

But then again, that is just me.

Yeah but u can't exactly create something you like since the game is broken. The moment u try to be creative and build something cool traffic mess up your city and sometimes emergency vehicles just disappears. Plus there's absolutely no challenge in building a city like a mindless grid just to fight the stupid ai.



#8 macbroue

macbroue
  • Mabroue
  • LocationCanada/Quebec

Posted 21 March 2013 - 12:22 PM

We have a demonstration where the tax rate has a big influence over citizen happiness.

Just in like many games, there is usually one feature that becomes overpowered.. Here, it's the tax rate..

 

So it's pretty clear we can play with the tax rate to give happiness boost to sims mostly at the early stages of city development and maybe beyond. The same kind of boost should be applied to Shops and Industries toward their respective tax rate..

 

 

Excellent post... Un très bon papier...

 

Thx for the time spent testing that....Merci beaucoup

 

 



#9 liquidjin

liquidjin
  • LiquidJ
  • LocationNew Jersey

Posted 21 March 2013 - 03:09 PM

Has anyone tried these experiments on a region basis instead of as a single-city? I'm actually impressed that the game responds in this manner, it's very true to the real world. People accept horrible conditions when they don't know any better or lack the opportunities to go somewhere else. They also are very susceptible to bait-and-switch tactics. The sim fails for me if it can't correct itself when the sims have choices (i.e. does he just get X number of new sims daily because that's what the region would always get? Or does every city benefit from new sims?)

 

I would love to see the following experiment determine how imbalanced or balanced taxes actually are.

 

City #1 - strictly Industrial / shopping center city (might need Bus Terminal)

City #2 - Low tax city with basics (electric, water, 5% tax)

City #3 - Medium tax city with health services (electric, water, sewage, clinic 9%)

City #4 - High tax city with health, safety, and education services (electric, water, sewage, clinic, police, fire, schools)



#10 mastorofpuppetz

mastorofpuppetz
  • dionabbott

Posted 21 March 2013 - 08:50 PM

RCI

 

This guy does a good job of summing up how bad this game is designed. Basically Sims always re-fill R zones at the same rate no matter how bad and miserable your city is, forgoing any challenge or any real reason to play or any need to care about strategy. I guess its just more confirmation they are going after the farmville audience who just wants to build a city without any challenge. Only reason to play is to watch the pretty city, zero depth. This alone ruins the game , but there is a lot more wrong. Can build an entire city of happy sims without I or C.  Make a cesspool horrible city no fear the game is designed for sims to automatically fill R zones....... That's real depth LMAO.

 

 

Wealth is a mess. Last I checked high wealth residents still shop at regular stores to..In this game it is horribly simplistic, high wealth only  shop at high wealth places, this is idiotic. Only high wealth residents will shop at high wealth places, but they also shop at medium wealth places. I see rich people all the time at the corner store.....

 

 

Fake Population:

 

The actual population of your city is way lower then the fake one the game shows you, there is never enough workers to fill jobs even though you barely have any jobs to begin with.

 

 

Traffic:

 

The last patch made it slightly better, at this rate it will take 5 patches more just to make traffic as good as NAM in SC4.. Emergency vehicles, buses are stupid, take wrong routes, circle intersections. 5 fire trucks go to 1 house fire while a skyscraper burns down........ One entrance into a city causes a bottleneck, limited train connections with no ability to expand them.

 

 

Water: Water runs out way too fast, 1 year my water rich city is dry, been living here 35 years city never once ran out of water. Can use the sewage treatment plant as a work around but it's still idiotic design.

 

 

Disasters: Not being able to turn off disasters is idiotic, another pointless restriction on players. The frequency of these is a mess. Went a full day without one then had 4 in 20 minutes, a lizard, Tornado, earthquake and zombies, all cost me 600000 plus, My stadium, University and other expensive buildings gone. Luckily the game is so easy all you have to do is watch sims auto fill every building again because they do not care what a cesspool your city is.

 

Education - In Simcity 5 year olds go to university, meaning you do not need regular schools, yes this is stupid beyond belief. Half the time they wont go for no apparent reason, low traffic and a school right next to them but they stay not enrolled even when they can walk there...... The next day all go to one school, ignore the other, then the next the opposite happens. Better off with one school for all which again lacks any kind of challenge or common sense.

 

 

Region Play -  The much touted reason for pointless DRM is limited, we have no control over region design, only can trade with a couple cities in the region, doesn't even work half the time. The Region play in this game is no better then was had in 10 year old SC4, maybe worse at least that game we could have cities close together for one massive region.

 

 

LAck of build space, terraforming - 2 step backwards, nothing else to say here.

 

Crime - Keeps saying cannot keep up with crime, yet there has not been a single crime in my town in weeks............................

 

Buildings tied to roads - In SC, you have to delete a skyscraper to delete a piece of road, this is beyond stupid.

 

Cloud Saves - Not going to say much here, but 2 weeks on I still get rollbacks, lost 3 cities and an entire region since launch, in-excusable.

 

 

This review sums up the game, intially seems fun, but after a few hours the ugly truth starts to appear.

 

 

http://www.rockpaper...ty/#more-146846

 

 

Hope you guys have fun with this game, I need something that has a little more depth then this, this game is a mockery of what Sim City should be. Good luck to you all, maybe one day with massive patching and EA's 19.99 bigger tiles DLC it will be worth playing. I do want to thank EA for 1 thing, this is the last EA game I'll ever buy, they stand for everything that is wrong with gaming today.



#11 gmcausland

gmcausland

Posted 21 March 2013 - 11:44 PM

Basically you can do what you want, you can't fail a city.
 

I think this is what they wanted... kinda like a facebook game where anyone can play it, and succeed. 

The more people that succeed, the more micro-transactions they can make, which means more money for EA.

Where EA failed, thinking that the Sim City fanbase was a bunch of mindless fools.

 

And this is nub of the matter.

 

The whole aim of EA/MAXI for Simcity 5 is to extract as much cash from the General Public through it's micro-transactions.  They will only put in as much depth to the game so as to achieve that aim.  They are not interested in stimulating minds through an in-depth virtual economic model.  For EA it's about the pretty graphics and the easiness to play the game to exploit people's cash.

 

It's sadly the way of how companies like EA operate nowadays.  This edition could have been opportunity to develop a game that would build on Simcity 4 but it has been squandered to exploit it as a 'pay to win' model.

 

I really hope the fans will wake up and stick their two fingers up at greedy EA to this kind of 'gaming'.






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