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Further Clarification on the Eternal Commuter Bug

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#1 Slyguy3129

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:19 PM

....not the other worldly one mind you.

Seriously though, regarding the bug when exactly is it present and how do you counter this?

Diagram of my understanding

City==========City
|. |
City==========City


When you have connection like so, it cause it. Only like so? Only the same network IE Has to be only all road, say the two souther cites were connected via road going North then East/West via those Cities and then connected to themselves by rail running East and West then North through one City to reach SimNation border (region edge). Would it be present then?

Any further clarifications and obvious no no's?

#2 z1

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:13 AM

That will do it. Any loop consisting of three or more cities can do it. The form of transport doesn't have to be uniform; the Sims can switch transportation types many times throughout the loop, and will, especially if you're using the NAM. I've tried to block them and seen them pull some bypasses that never occurred to me.

A Nonny Moose's favorite solution is to use only tree connections between cities, so that loops cannot possibly form. That will always work. But you can also have loops that don't turn into eternal commuter loops. For example, if you are using large city tiles, the close to the center you connect them, the less chance there will be of forming a loop. Your biggest danger is when you connect cities near their edges. Also, if a potential loop connection goes through a large commercial/industrial section with a wide variety of jobs, Sims will typically stop there and go to work. But such regions must be in a direct-line path between the entrance to a city and its exit. Building your networks to divert the Sims to a different area simply does not work, because the traffic simulator's destination finder, which is what decides to send the Sims on to the next city or not, looks only at straight-line routes, and does not pay attention to what networks and paths actually exist.

#3 JJogurt

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:25 AM

There are two main reasons for the commute bug, which is actually more of a design flaw than a bug.

Firstly, the commuters going to work to another city "don't know" anything about that city apart from the fact that it has the jobs they need. They don't know anything about transportation infrastructure or the distances to jobs in that city.
Secondly, when Sims who live close to a border look for work they will often choose to travel to a neighboring city because they'll assume it is the closest option. This is of course often wrong and one of the biggest design flaws in the game.

Let's look at it step by step:
1. A Sim living in the residential zone of city A will look for a job
2. He'll choose to go to city B, because it's closer to him that the industrial zone.
3. Once he arrives at city B he'll go to city C, because it's closer than the industrial zone.
4. Once he arrives at city C he'll go to city A, because it's closer than the industrial zone.
5. Once back in city A he'll again go to city B. The eternal loop is complete.
Posted Image

A good solution for this is to always build your cities at the center of the map, and always keep your industrial and commercial zones close to residential. Many people like to build their dirty industry very far away from R zones. This is bad in my opinion, and not just because of the bug, but for other reasons as well.

To completely solve this however, you'll have to do what z1 said. Build you connections like a tree, so the loop can never occur.

Hope this helps.

#4 A Nonny Moose

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:12 PM

The flip side of this coin is where you want a lot of income quickly. Set one up, loaded with toll gates and/or fare requiring links like ferries. You can break it when your treasury is where you need it to be.

 

 

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#5 Droric

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 10:20 PM

What exactly is a tree connection?

#6 z1

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 12:12 AM

It's where you have a central city with lines leading out of it and then further lines branching off them, etc.



#7 A Nonny Moose

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 10:11 AM

And no loops back. 

 

Think of the city as a tree trunk, then think of the branches.  None of them return to the roots except in certain trees not normally seen outside a rain forest.


 

 

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#8 infamousjbe

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 12:41 PM

What are the negative effects caused by the loop?

 

I have quite a few connections, some near the corners, but don't seem to have any issues rearing their heads. At least none that I've noticed.

 

Though, from what I gather as long as you have jobs near the edges/connections aswell, which I do, will help prevent the loop. y/n?



#9 A Nonny Moose

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 03:09 PM

How about a cautious maybe.  If the loop includes ferries, then you could easily be stonkered.  To check for a loop, take a look at the links to see if there are more people on the link than there is in the sending city.  If so, you need to think hard about it, and whether to capitalize on it by adding toll booths.  Remember that the commuter loop only comes into being across three or more cities.  Adjacent cites usually don't do it.


 

 

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#10 z1

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 04:57 PM

What are the negative effects caused by the loop?

 

From the CAM Manual:

 

 

This leads to a high job demand all around the region, and for quite a while the
simulation will allow the situation to continue. However, the longer you play and the
more skewed the situation becomes, the more difficult will it be to achieve a healthy
development.

Those commuters going around in circles through cities A –> B -> C -> D -> A -> etc.
will never disappear. Commuters only increase in numbers, they never decrease. Thus
you will soon have traffic and pollution problems around that corner.

Before long, you will also face a situation where residential buildings start to dilapidate,
since all jobs in the neighbouring cities are “taken” by the eternal commuters and those
living in the city will suffer from unemployment.

 

Although the CAM intensifies these problems, they can occur in any city with commuter loops.

 

 

I have quite a few connections, some near the corners, but don't seem to have any issues rearing their heads. At least none that I've noticed.

 

It takes at least three cities to form a commuter loop.  Also, if you have a limited number of Sims traveling around a short loop, problems can be small enough that you won't notice them.

 

 

Though, from what I gather as long as you have jobs near the edges/connections as well, which I do, will help prevent the loop. y/n?

 

Yes.  I have personally found that making connections near the middle of large tiles is the best way of permitting loops without getting eternal commuters.



#11 BelgradeSim

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 05:20 AM

I have a different problem. A big city, hub of the region, with small towns connected to its edges. Some of them are mixed - RHC and some of them are industrial cities. No closed loops but there are connections close to cities corners. Region-wide i have 1.6 million people and million jobs, which is more than optimal 50% of the population. Yet, some Sims in my big city just report they can't find jobs and they abandon their homes. Its mostly ones built close to the city edge (and close to the city offering plenty of jobs).

 

Again, my industrial hub has ~100k jobs and i see less commuters going there (~50k or so). And believe me, connections are good between the large city and its satellites. I think the game is mismanaging those interconnections.

 

I heard people sad about the NAM that if Sims cant find way to job its because there is no job, but obviously commuters get confused when traveling to other cities.



#12 A Nonny Moose

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 07:26 AM

You may be in a situation that requires the I-HT fix.


 

 

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#13 z1

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 04:26 PM

You may also want to try the newer NAM traffic simulator, which features improved pathfinding.






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