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PBGV's BAT Thread

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#1 PBGV103

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 03:53 PM

Hey guys I guess I'll test the waters and be the first one on the team to start my own thread here!  Theres not much new with 425 Lexington.  The RL building is on a slight slope which makes the east side lower than the west.  I was planning on ignoring that and adjusting it to be level so it would look better in SC4.  Yes? No?  What do you guys think?

Here are some recent previews:





#2 Evillions

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 04:08 PM

I think it looks great! Can't wait for it to be finished!

#3 Sgt Pepper

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 04:09 PM

Hey Paul! Ah, you beat me to starting the first BAT Thread.

Well, I'd rather see it with the RL slope...But I think you might be right making it level since the SC4 Perspective might ruin it or make it look slightly odd. Or, before you get to that part, you could make a little "mock up" of that part(just a basic shape) and preview render that to test and be sure.

So far, everything else is going along fantastic! I can't wait to have this building.

#4 PBGV103

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 05:25 PM

The main issue that I was concerned with is that SC4 tends to level lots when you plop buildings. That would make the east end undergound and the possibly the west side floatting! Even if you solve that problem every user would have to accurately terraform the land it sits on in order to make it look right. I'll mess around with it. The height difference is only about 1 meter so it wouldn't be too tough to make 2 version for the release but I'll focus on a level version for now.

Edit:  Upon further street view inspection, the grade change is even less than I initially thought, so I not going to worry about it.

#5 Aaron Graham

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 08:22 AM

Looks Pretty I have to say. Looking real.

nybtthread.jpgagthread.jpg




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#6 Sgt Pepper

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 01:52 PM

I see you edited your post with more recent photos! It's coming along much, much nicely! I really dig that facade! My concern is, on the last pic in your post, the reflection on the base where the doors are at, it covers the glass of the doors on that side. Is that like a big cloud? It kinda looks weird to me have that part of the reflection that low...

#7 PBGV103

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 04:17 PM

Hahaha kinda looks like a cloud, but no, I'm using a small clip of a google earth satellite picture. The reflections aren't anywhere near where I want them to be now. Btw, I think the cloud is a bus or something, and the model is much further along now than the pictures above.  

#8 Sgt Pepper

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 05:45 PM

Originally posted by: PBGV103
the model is much further along now than the pictures above.  



We wantz moar pics!

#9 PBGV103

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 10:14 PM

Update time!  everything is coming together nicely so far.  It may not look like huge progress, but trust me, a lot has changed.  This BAT has been a bit of a challenge so far in learning max and making sure everything is scaled perfectly.  Once you get started, though, the time taken in measuring really pays off and makes thing fit together perfectly    Please ignoer the large hole in the roof and lack of mullions on the upper most windows, btw.



I hope to finish up the east side plaza by tomorrow night 

#10 Sgt Pepper

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 08:51 AM

W-w-w-WOW! I'm loving this BAT! I hardly have anything to advise on it since everything so far looks great. But, I'm curious about the roof Texture currently, it's a base right? I think it maybe should be slightly darker...Other than that, you do realize on the right angled corner the gold door has a red plane above it while the other door near the left corner doesn't, right?

#11 PBGV103

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 11:08 AM

Yeah, the right corner has a Bank of America in it, and the left has a Lens Crafters in it. I'm hoping to make the ground floor windows slightly transparent later. That way I can model all the stuff inside and make it look more realistic.

#12 Aaron Graham

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 12:02 PM

Its perfect. You are just as good a the veterans of batting.

nybtthread.jpgagthread.jpg




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#13 GuerrilaWarfare

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 06:39 PM

Sorry PBGV103, I just came back now. You requested a little too late or else I would have gotten them for you
But it looks just about right !

#14 PBGV103

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 07:10 PM

Hahaha  thats ok, I think I've figured it out.  I'm very happy with the way this BAT is turning out so far.  Most of the progress has been on the other side, but I really wanted to share the picture below.  I changed the material that was being reflected and am very happy with the result. 



I think it looks much better now.  What do you guys think?

#15 Aaron Graham

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 07:33 PM

WOW!!! I need to geat like that. Keep it up.

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#16 PBGV103

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 11:38 PM

I ran into a renderind issue (I think).  For some reason max is ignoring certain objects.  I've tried replacing the objects and everything else I could think of, but nothing seems to work.  Theres currently about 12,000 objects (650,000 polys) in the scene, so I'm wondering if my graphics card can't handle in or something, but that really shouldn't be a problem until several million polys, from what I've heard.  Here'a a picture of what I'm talking about:



You can see the weird dark rectangles on the wall and the white spots in the tree and on the planter box.  Anyone know what the problem is?

#17 SimFox

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 01:38 AM

12 000 object is a madness and a sign of totally messed up scene. in what I see in the picture there shouldn't be more than say 10 or so objects.
You're digging hole you gonna fall in with your own very hands.
Your experiments with matrials/reflections are another such fruitless activity. I know you egger to play, but setting up reflections (or to be precise what you have to reflect) when you have made just a door and bits and pieces of first couple of floors out of 38 and no experience is pointless waste of time.

You also keep building your model window by window. Not only it creates the mess of 12000 objects it also makes it impossible to evaluate proportions of the whole thing, as neither we no you don't see it in it's entirety. Tell what is gonna happen when (if) you get it to the roof and it will be discovered that proportions are somewhat, but noticeably off.? Are you going to alter all your, by then, 20+ 000 objects? Or just say well it doesn't matter, cause ti ti too much work to do anything about it?

And you heard it wrong... Number of poligons isn't quite as important as number of objects. if you are to continue as is you gonna cripple it bad.

Weird dark rectangles could be either coplanar surfaces, or some errors in FG.



#18 PBGV103

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 12:15 PM

It won't be 20,000+ objects, actually, it shouldn't be much more than what it is now because I'm almost done with modeling. The scale shouldn't be off either. I didn't spend time making basic shapes, but I got the measurements for the windows. Almost everything is based around that same sized window. I realize that on buildings like 500 5th Ave this strategy wouldn't work, but here the windows and glass panes between the floors are the exact same size. I think you'll be a little more enthusiastic when you see the finished product. For now, go pick on Brandon or something. hahaha

#19 Sgt Pepper

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 01:34 PM

Originally posted by: PBGV103
go pick on Brandon or something. hahaha


 OOOOOOOOOOOOH RLY? haha I don't have MAX so SimFox can't pick on me. MWAHAHAHAH!

Anyway, I like how its coming out, don't forget to get some roof detail on there. And perhaps the current roof texturs could be darkened a tad bit? It almost(not exactly, but from a zoomed out distance it would probably look the same) looks like the same color as the facade(well to me, I think I have bad vision).

#20 SimHoTToDDy

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 03:13 PM

Originally posted by: Sgt Pepper
Originally posted by: PBGV103
go pick on Brandon or something. hahaha


OOOOOOOOOOOOH RLY? haha I don't have MAX so SimFox can't pick on me. MWAHAHAHAH!


He is, however, quite correct in his point about object versus poly count, this is a principle that applies both to GMAX and MAX. 2000 is considered to be way too much as well, so shrugging off 12k is a reason for concern. To be honest, I still struggle with this, however I am much better now than I was even a few projects ago. The whole point of this is to learn from one project and apply to the next and so on.

Perhaps what this community needs is a intermediate/advanced low object modeling tutorial. The tutorials hosted here now are all of the high object count, "build it bit by bit" variety. I think this gives people the wrong impression which becomes a serious larger scenes.

The building itself, while I am not too familiar, seems like it is on the correct track (with the exception of the ridiculous object count).

#21 PBGV103

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 05:11 PM

The main reason behind the object count is the fact that every individual window and white glass rectangle between the windows is it's own object. I suppose I could make most of the white rectangles into single objects per floor, but I don't know if thats worth the effort and extra time at this point.

Edit:  those mysterious black rectangles are moving every time I open the scene, but they stay on that same wall.  I've actually replaced the objects that seem to not be rendering twice now and the problem persists.  3ds max has also started randomly switching to zoom5 on previews when I have it set to another zoom level.

Edit2: Layering objects on the wall seems to be fixing the invisible object problem. Weird huh?  heres what it looks like now:



#22 Sgt Pepper

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 08:48 AM

Looking good! It almost looks like your done. You should definately follow what Todd and SimFox are telling you, their suggestions will help alot. I would know...

My questions about the 20,000+ object issue-
So if you have less objects in a scene, would the rendering be alot faster? Or would it make a difference? Or does it just help the Model File size in the end?

"Perhaps what this community needs is a intermediate/advanced low object modeling tutorial. The tutorials hosted here now are all of the high object count, "build it bit by bit" variety. I think this gives people the wrong impression which becomes a serious larger scenes"

I think it needs that too. I need it. Though, my scenes never come close to over 1,000 objects. I think Wall Street Plaza slightly went above 1,000, but with some attaching objects and stuff I think it dramatically went down.

#23 PBGV103

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 09:07 AM

I checked again and its says theres about 9,500 objects now, not much better i guess, but at least it's something. Can't figure out where the other object went though, because I didn't delete any. hahaha

#24 PBGV103

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 10:41 PM

Almost done!  with the day scene that is...

#25 SimHoTToDDy

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 10:52 PM

May we have a full render?

#26 PBGV103

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 09:07 AM

Haven't worked on it yet today, but here's where I stand:





It's done except for a long list of details: darken the roof a little, put gates on the plaza, add plants and stuff on the lower roof, and add HVAC and other roof stuff.  So, basically I have a ton of details left to do.  There's also some tiny architectural details on the HVAC/roof maintinence housing that I haven't found a good picture of.  I noticed them on Bing Maps last night. Should I just guess at what they are?  I was also thinking about putting in the pavers in the plaza.

#27 ilikehotdogsalot

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 09:28 AM

Wow, this one looks great!

#28 Sgt Pepper

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 10:32 AM

IT IS SO BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!

I can't wait to see it fully done and with nightlighting. My question though, concerning the back part of the blank wall, how would the kinda W2W factor fit in there? Or is it supposed to be an alley? Oh and I'd just guess on those details on the HVAC/Roof part. It doesn't have to be perfectly accurate you know. How about putting in the pavers and letting us see?

Thinking of this, I wish I still had the Downtown Athletic Club model to redo the back with some more details and redo the textures....I think I may have the sketchup model though...as in the one I made in sketchup, not the google one.

#29 PBGV103

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 12:26 PM

I edited my last post to include the beginnings of the plaza pavers and other stuff. Theres still tables, chairs, lights, and other miscellaneous thing to do with it.  The really odd thing that I noticed is that those black rectangles disappeared when I added the plaza ground.

Brandon, there are two other buildings w2w with it, so I will probably make the plaza an overhang, which will require custom LODs.  ugh....  I'm saving that for last.  Im actually not even sure of the "right" way to do those.

Edit:  Each of the 6 trees have about 100,000 faces, do you think thats a problem?  xD  I apparently wasted a lot of time on the fence in the plaza, because it looks like a solid block, even on zoom5



#30 Parisian

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 02:03 PM

Wow Wow Wow. this tower is fabulous. It's an original form and for sure very hard to create. Good job.




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