Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

bleakstyle

Desirability and parks! They dont work?

Recommended Posts

Days ago all of my hi-rise buildings got dilapidated for reasons I was not aware of. At first they simply reduced the number of people living in the building, then when the number is too low to support the building's outlook, it blackened. In other cases they got occupied by middle-wealth residents. Eventually most of the hi-rises turned into black or ugly ghettos. So I searched the forum a little and found out the reason why high-wealth residents abandoned their building is linked to low desirability. So I tore the city down and strated rebuilding, hoping to create a more satisfying environments for my sims. I tried to build a underground network to relieve the traffic, built as many parks as I can to increase the desirability. but my sims are still abandoning the hi-rises.

That's when I downloaded THL DataView Detail Mod v1.0 in hope of finding out the real reason by a modded, more detailed desirability map. I also did a test on whether parks/recreational buildings have a postive effect on desirablity, but the results are quite frustrating.

I built three large parks around a $$$ building where only lives 60% of its capacity (153/241). Then I found the desirability increased a great amount, and the residents come to 235/241. I was delirious at first but after months passed the desirability dropped gradually, and the residents came to 156/241.26.gif

I am at my wits' end. I don't know if it's a bug or something, or there's other thing that I can do to increase desirability once and for all. Many other areas in my city underwent the same situation and those parks were like a big joke, hated by my sims. Could any one tell me how to fix this up? I'd be very very appreciated!9.gif

I captured three in-game pictures to show where my problem is, but because I couldn't find a place to host them so I put them on my photo album here . And pardon my English. 8.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Before anything else, did you install any mods that might have affected SC4?

Second, when you used Query on the abandoned buildings, what reason did it say? Low desirability, long commute, low demand, etc?

Third, what's your R$$$ tax rate? The first thing I consider with R$$$ dilapidation is not desirability but an excess of rich sims that cannot find jobs; often caused by low R$$$ tax rates. Your R$$$ tax rate should be at least 9.5%, personally I use 9.7-9.8%. Once this is done, you might want to get Bones1's mod that increases the desirability requirement for R$$$'s from 20 to 50%.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Date: 2/18/2006 5:43:23 AM
Author: Peorth
Before anything else, did you install any mods that might have affected SC4?


Second, when you used Query on the abandoned buildings, what reason did it say? Low desirability, long commute, low demand, etc?


Third, what's your R$$$ tax rate? The first thing I consider with R$$$ dilapidation is not desirability but an excess of rich sims that cannot find jobs; often caused by low R$$$ tax rates. Your R$$$ tax rate should be at least 9.5%, personally I use 9.7-9.8%. Once this is done, you might want to get Bones1's mod that increases the desirability requirement for R$$$'s from 20 to 50%.
quote>

I only installed mods like NAM, or those affect on terrain textures, landscape stuff, nothing affecting demands or radical mods.

Second, I thought I might have said it wrong, my building did not get dilapidated (this means all sims leave the building, right?), they got fewer residents then eventually 17.gifare occupied by $$ res (so buildings blackened).

The $$$ res tax rate is at 9%, as the game default setting. But what you said about raising the tax rate is quite new to me, but reasonable. Thanks for the tip!44.gifI also checked Bones1's mod before but I was afraid seeing many $$ buildings. But what the hell I'm gonna give it a shot!

After this post I let the game run for another sim decade only to find more $$$ turned to black. This time $ and $$$ demands both dropped to zero while $$ demand remained the highest. Maybe what my city really lacks is $$, not $$$.

Thank you anyway, I will keep trying to save the city.29.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, dilapidation is is when your buildings turn gray from their natural pristine state; a synonym for this is distress. A black building is termed abandoned.

To help you a bit, let me explain the mechanics of dilapidation. As you certainly know, there are three wealth levels, low-wealth (

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

a couple things to consider are:

1) do you have enought civics that R$$$ sims need to thrive, such as schools, hospitals, etc.
2) are there enough $$$ jobs for your sims, ie. CO$$$,CS$$$, I-HT
3) are there any NIMBY buildings in the vicinity of these distressed building
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Peorth and ten1902 for you advices.

I totally agree with those causes of dilapidation, but that's just not the case in my city.

Here's my delimma:

1. I have full budget running civic services, schools, hospotals police stations, and so on. No NIMBY buildings in res area and commerce district.

2. I have about 4000 demands on $$$ res, and +6000 on $$ res, and a few on $ res. After I installed bone1's mod, the remained hi-rises got dilapidated one by one, and then abandoned due to low desirability. So I bulldozed those abandoned buildings and then humongous Salvation Towers replaced them. At this time $ res demand dropped but $$ and $$$ res demand were still high. But some zoned areas only developed into small bungalows even though there were high demands on $$ and $$$ res. In some places land values also dropped from high to middle, nothing's changede except time lapsed. So now I have many $ and $$ buildings ($$ demands are still 6000+), overall desirability for $$$ res is pretty low.

3. I also have high demands on CS$, CS$$, CO$$ and CO$$$, but not CS$$$. I have about 50k work force on commerce, many of them are $$ CO CS and $$$ CO. $$Cs are fine, but CO$$$ have the same problem as with $$$ res--they are at half of its capacity (but not dilapidated or abandoned).

4. I have hi-tech demands at about +2000. Nothing happened when I zoned the area. Then I placed some parks around them and they got into hi tech. At that time desirability map for hi tech shows high desirability. BUT!!! Same thing happened again!! As time went by they got toally abandoned because of low desirability. Again!

5. Then I put many small plazas around res and commcercial districts, many $$$ res and $$$ CO or CS began to tower like hell. Desirability map shows high too. Again, time lapses and they got abandoned.

6. Currently $$$ C buildings are all at about 50% of its capacity, while $$ C are fine. I can't use up the $$ CS and CO demands either.

To conclude, high wealth simes are unwilling to move into my city simply because of low desirabaility, which no matter how I tried can't be maintained. The traffic volume is low, traffic noise is at most middle. There's little pollution in res either. I have plenty of tall office buildings, still they don't wanna stay.

Am I the only one witnessing the receding desirability? Or there's still other factors affecting desirability? If there's any please tell me coz I couldn't find any. Oh, I play sc4 at hard game difficulty level, I don't know if it in any way relates to the problems I'm having now.

Sorry to make this so tedious.45.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frankly, at this point I think there's something really wrong in your SC4 install. I only play at the Hard level and I don't plop that many parks, yet I have little desirability problems. Since your demands and other city aspects look fine, maybe it's worthwhile trying to reinstall your game and any only the necessary plugins. I've tested Bones1's mod myself and I didn't experience any problems with it. Still, to be on the safe side, remove it first and other recent lots/bats that might have generated problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok. I guess now I can only choose to remove the bats or reinstall the game. Just now I searched the forum and found some people seemed to have the same problem using bats but affecting desirability. Maybe those bats are too much for the game. lol

Thanks for you kind help. 44.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is one other possible problem that has been touched (slightly) on up above.

Traffic

Yep...traffic. See what your average commute time is. Check out your congestion map. One problem with R$$$ sims is that they are the most resistant to using public transit of any sims. They also tend to gravitate towards the more expensive options: subway and monorail (although there is some debate about this). Also, check out your pollution map. Some of your streets (roads, etc) might be producing a lot of pollution even if they're not at capacity yet. Plant some tree to clean this up.

Hope this helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

one question...are you using neighboring cities as well as the main one?

if you are using neighboring cities you might want to play them for a little while everytime you add/subtract from your main city.  ive found that keeping all surrounding cities on a relatively similar calendar helps everything grow evenly...i dunno why that is, i just have noticed thats how it seems to work(at least for me)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To tchaos713: You're absoultely right. Yesterday I checked commute chart and found something unusual: they spend 450 (mins) in commute. How could those sims, senseless as they are, tolerate so much commute time. even though I've placed sub station in front of every building and street corner. (well, actually I got 450 mins of commute time when I removed all the plugins.) Then I tried to use NAM's Traffic_Plugin_Radical_Custom_Special coupled with DM's transit supermod to reduce the commute time. And so they did. Commute time was then at about 20 mins but res dilapidation didn't get any improvement. (just to be clear, I had NAM installed when the problem was found, then removed, found commute peaked 450, reinstall NAM and DM's)
Thanks for the reminder!44.gif

To ten1902: Yes I have three neighboring cities, and as you suggested, this city's calender is indeed much further (now 277 yrs) than the rests'(about 50 yrs only). I was not aware of that time differences would cause the problem, but I did noticed that demand is different in different cities. So I think I will run the other three cities to catch up on this one and see what will happen. Thanks for the advice 44.gif

Here's something you might be a bit more interested in:

I was so annoyed to see the low desirability in res area, and I turned to blame some of my previously downloaded RCI BATs, which have too many jobs offer. So I removed all those RCI BATs from plugin folder, and tada, the desirability became much greener than before. This time they didn't drop for some time, but it seemed the nearby commercial zoning has certain negative effect on wealthy sims. The results are res got abandoned again, but this time I believed it's the demand instability that caused the problem. (it's kinda complicated and my point here should be some BATs might have negative effect on $$$ res and its desirability)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I often find that pretty much regardless of how good your city is, after the initical boom in growth that gets most cities going, your higher wealth, and even medium wealth highrises will start to darken.

What I have found very consistently in my best cities is that the best way to get highrises with staying power is to grow them only after you have a solid base of medium density development. Then, and only then, do I start to zone (and very sparingly) areas for high density occupation.

Critically thinking, a city with a population of about 100,000 realy shouldn't be able to support block upon block of high wealth high density buildings.

Anouther thing that might be nice to see would be some pics of the city itself, I don't think enough can be said for the actual nuts and bolts planing that goes into not only a cities transportation network, but also were zones are located and what type of zones are located where.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like irishgrapes, I always zone in medium density first. Once these medium zones start getting overgrown with condos and mid-rises, I start zoning high-density.

Dilapidation is not inevitable, as some players might think, but can be minimized. I've reached up to 110,000 or more with 0-1 distressed residential buildings, and only a handful of distressed low-rise Co

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Date: 2/20/2006 10:00:35 PM Author: bleakstyle To tchaos713: Here's something you might be a bit more interested in: I was so annoyed to see the low desirability in res area, and I turned to blame some of my previously downloaded RCI BATs, which have too many jobs offer. So I removed all those RCI BATs from plugin folder, and tada, the desirability became much greener than before. This time they didn't drop for some time, but it seemed the nearby commercial zoning has certain negative effect on wealthy sims. The results are res got abandoned again, but this time I believed it's the demand instability that caused the problem. (it's kinda complicated and my point here should be some BATs 'might have' negative effect on $$$ res and its desirability)
quote>

To bleakstyle:  When you say all those RCI BATS. . . . you didn't happen to remember which ones they might be... 42.gif  I too have huge desirabilty problems (due to low land value over my entire city, I think....)  Thanks so much for this helpful thread!!!!

railrod7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
well I have my answers, but I am normally ignored when I express them in print, so.....
 
 EDIT: traffic is the number one focal point. Solve that and simizens will accept almost anything else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EDIT: Sorry guys, I think something went very very wrong when I tore the whole city down and found there were still 13k people (ghosts???). Later I obliterated the city, the demand chart looks like this:
114060907977.jpg

This apparently does not concern any gameplay skills..
I feel terrible wasting your time like this, but I do learn a lot from you all. Thanks again.

To irishgrapes and Peorth: I am sorry that I couldn't provide more photos than those now in my photo album. Since I have been doing some overhauls to my city trying to save it, figures on demand chart, numbers of residents and others are different now. But the layout is basically the same. I don't know if it helps, but I can tell you when the problems occured, all my cities totaled residents of 240,000, commercial workforce at about 150,000 and some 20k~30k in industry. Not until some tall skyscrapers appeared in my city did I witness the large scale of dilapidation in $$$ area:
normal_114024721175.jpg
Here are 3 other pictures from Depression 1-4

But only this time, I had these tall buildings in my other city but they seemed to work out fine. Now I am really confused.

I fully understand the concept of zoning middle density first. However, I used to zone from the beginning of the game with high density in all areas and this is the first time I have a problem of it. so I still gonna take your advice too to rezone the whole city and cut all connection to other cities. My guess is that the demand will go back to its initial stage, and hopefully this time all will go well.

To railrod7: Yes I couldn't remember and know which one caused the overall desirability decline to my city. So that's why I removed the whole plugin folder to eradicate the possibility. But you can keep your eyes on some buildings that offer too many jobs and take them out of your plugin folder temporarily to see how it goes. Of course it's only my conjecture, because in my case, all started when a steely office building with 4000 $$$ CO jobs appeared in my city while the rest of my building gave at best about 1000 CO$$$ jobs. (in the second run)

To frndofyaweh: Could you please elaborate how well should the traffic go to satisfy $$$ sims? I checked at the initial stage some buildings they showed middle in traffic noise and by that time commute time is averaged 40-50 mins. I don't know if it is enough for high wealth sims. Or should I make them both low in traffic noise and commute time?

Thanks all you guys for sharing your expertise. I really appreciate it! You're awesome!!44.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×