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ammo8121

Education without schools

9 posts in this topic

I recently started playing SimCity 4 again. I tried to create 2 residential zones with one having no education, and the other having full education. Basically trying to divide classes. About 10 years in, my no education zone got as educated as my fully educated area. Is this a bug? I was trying to keep the uneducated zone low wealth

RandyE likes this

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I've consistently found it very difficult to create low, med, and high wealth divisions in SC4.  I've tried using garbage dumps and starving resources and cutting off traffic, taxing the poor to feed the rich, but it seems as soon as there's any med or high wealth or availability of civil services, the Sims are very nice people who lift up their neighbors to at least med wealth.   

SC4 doesn't start at a condition of complete scarcity of resources and lack of availability of skill and tech, it more so begins in the 20th century with an optimistic vision that if you manage things well, you can build utopia.   A lot of the game is focused on crisis management and enabling the player to succeed.      

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Is this a bug?  Most likely not.  Why is this happening?  The best answer is "It depends!"  I obviously don't know specifics about the city you are developing so most of this the following is very generic.

It depends on whether you are playing plain vanilla, or are using custom content.  Some custom content can have stats that are very different to similar Maxis facilities, especially radius being served, and often, amount of EQ boost. 

Don't forget that there are other buildings that might provide a more hefty EQ boost than schools, over a much wider area, sometimes to a much large segment of the population.  Think museums and libraries.  Again the stats issue for custom content vs. plain vanilla.

Don't forget that unlike public safety facilities, an education facility exerts its full effect to every tile within its radius of effect.

It depends on the size of the city square you are trying to develop.  A Maxis school (effect radius - 512 m), even if placed in the extreme corner of a small city square (1,000 x 1,000 m) is going to exert its influence over almost a quarter of the city square.  Place that same facility in the middle of the same city square and its effect covers almost 80% of the city square.  A Maxis Museum (effect radius - 5800m) will exert its effect on every tile of a large city square, no matter where it's placed in that city square.

jeffryfisher and CT14 like this

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55 minutes ago, twalsh102 said:

It depends on the size of the city square you are trying to develop.  A Maxis school (effect radius - 512 m), even if placed in the extreme corner of a small city square (1,000 x 1,000 m) is going to exert its influence over almost a quarter of the city square.  Place that same facility in the middle of the same city square and its effect covers almost 80% of the city square.  A Maxis Museum (effect radius - 5800m) will exert its effect on every tile of a large city square, no matter where it's placed in that city square.

For the elementary and high schools one can simply turn off the buses. (Adjust bus funding to zero.) Then the radius is considerably smaller. The museum and college do affect the whole tile as you said. This is likely where the Sims are getting their education.

For example I always play large tiles now and I'll get it mostly covered with farms and residential and a wee bit of commercial and industry before I do any education stuff. Now, I'll get my city stabilized so the population is not fluctuating by more than single digit denizens. I'll add one single elementary school with no buses, one library, and one museum. Then I provide health care to every one of the Sims. Let it run long enough and because the museum educates the older Sims and those Sims live a long time they can get fairly smart. When a Sim dies they are replaced by a younger one who inherits half of the parent's EQ. Even when born outside the radius of the school and library it's enough that they don't lose all their EQ by the time the museum kicks in for them. So when they die at a ripe old age they are smarter than their parent at that age and therefore their offspring is a bit smarter starting out than they were. With a totally stable population and enough health to get a life span a little above 80 years you can achieve a 120 overall EQ with one elementary school, one library, and one museum. With 100 year life spans you can get about 160 overall EQ from the same 3 buildings.

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I have each zone on a different side of the map, so the radii of the schools in the educated section are not even close to the other one. In the graphs it shows much less eq in the uneducated section, but if you click on the houses, it says education is high. I only have a hospital and police station in the uneducated part as well. I even had some high wealth move on in lol. I have NAM installed btw

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So, no museum or college in that city tile? Not even one? Then are you using any custom content plugins? Perhaps something there is boosting education? Otherwise, I'm going to have to guess the Sims are getting smart on one side of the map then moving to the other side and being replaced with fresh Sims wanting to attend the schools on the first side of the map.

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Are the neighborhoods new?  Meaning, have they had a lot of sims move in in the last 10 years?  If they have then what you are seeing is that each new sim starts with a base EQ.  This is independent of any existing factors (such as schools/no schools).  As the sim ages this base EQ will slowly erode if there are no Education buildings within reach of the sim.  The next generation that moves into the house inherits 1/2 of the previous sims EQ number.  10 sim years is not nearly long enough to see this effect.  You will have to run the simulation much longer to see the EQ level of the schooled to rise and the unschooled lower.

Also keep in mind that the EQ graph is the average for the city.  So even if you have some educated sims, or new sims moving in, it will never go to zero.

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I have a museum, high school, elementary school, and a library in the northeast residential section of the city tile. In the south west residential section there are no education buildings. I did not know sims moved to different parts of the city. Guess I'll have to just do an uneducated city square and educated city square. Will they move in between squares of the region? Guess I could make a low wealth and higher wealth city square in the region. Then just hike the taxes on what i don't want in each tile

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4 hours ago, ammo8121 said:

I have a museum, high school, elementary school, and a library ...

The museum is the culprit in this case. Its effect is city wide and affects the older generations. When they die their replacements (in the same house) come in with half of the EQ of the older Sim who went to that big electronic grave yard in the sky. As I said in my post above this is one way to educate the whole city tile with a minimum of an elementary school, a library, and a museum. Just those 3 buildings for education along with good health care coverage and lots of time with a stable population will do it. For the effect you are after, take out the museum and you should be able to get medium wealth around the other education facilities and low wealth outside of their influence.

Now yes, you can also separate the medium and low wealth by having them in their own separate city tiles. This is technically easier to manage.

Additionally, you could make a mod to prevent the higher wealth levels from kicking out and taking over the lower wealth parcels. That's what I did in this post which allows me to have all wealth levels near each other regardless of the other later influences I add in. None of the homes in this pic were marked historical. They all show high School and Hospital Grades yet will stay put year in and year out.

02 LMH Wealth.jpg

 

Other modders are aware of how to make this, but apparently no one else has tested it to any significant degree for fear it will make super high density skyscraper cities more difficult. I'm using the mod I made in my own region and I absolutely love it. I am, however, creating a rural farming community with small towns so I cannot say how it would affect a metalostrophy design. It's simple to create. Or if you want to experiment with it, I can attach mine to a post. I'm using it along with @Bones1's Less Abandonment Mod.

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