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      If you can, please help us reach our June donation goal!  Please note that the STEX Collector's Set gift can now be sent to you by digital download, as well as by mail! Simtropolis runs mostly on donations, as you know, every dollar helps us keep things up and running and bring in improvements from time to time. Donate and Get a Gift or Donate Any Amount Thanks so much! - Dirktator & The Admins
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      Simtropolis hardware upgrade - can you help?   06/21/2017

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CorinaMarie

Announcing the New SimCity 3000 Sub-Forum

43 posts in this topic

6 hours ago, mrsmartman said:

We should be proud of our heritage. :)

Yep.

 

From our PM while CB and I were setting this up:

14 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

SC3k is SC4's mother and she really needs a nice place to retire and reminisce.

His reply (posted without permission but I'm guessing it'll be ok).

14 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

Absolutely, the game's been neglected far too long here, which I've always been surprised at. This is another one of those moments you wonder, "Why has no one ever thought of that before?".

As long as it doesn't cost ST some extortionate care home fees, the new residence should be easy enough to maintain... :whatevs:

 

Anyhow, this particular thread is for lost threads and files to move and discussion about the forum itself. Like how would y'all want it set up? Have a pinned Show Us Your 3000 Pics? A Techy Questions thread? Post your suggestions. Keep in mind other peeps will need to write them as it's been too long since I played 3k to provide any useful information. Again, I'm just the one to facilitate your ideas.

RandyE, mrsmartman, huzman and 3 others like this

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Yeah where is the forums?  I''m on a desktop and like a lot of modern websites all I see are smartphone style objects and nothing at all that even looks like a forum.   

Did the forum get shut down due to everyone jumping on farmville or something?  

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4 hours ago, SimCity Picciune said:

Yeah where is the forums?  I''m on a desktop and like a lot of modern websites all I see are smartphone style objects and nothing at all that even looks like a forum.

Sorry, I'm not sure what you're referring to there.

Maybe post a screenshot in the Bugs Thread and we can determine if something isn't working properly.

Thanks. *:)

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Although I yet have some technical issues with my windows 8 machine in order to go the serious distance in my affection for SC3, my Windows 7 machine runs it like a charm.  So we may be having to discuss much about getting SC3 tamed first, before we begin to enjoy sharing the beauty of the game.   I need to get my GPU operating at no more than about 38 degrees Celsius in order to contribute to the SC3 Revival movement which I am sincerely interested in.

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Is this replacement of SC3000.com that acquired 2009? I think, the previous content on the previous site should be here. Also, don't forget to close SC3000.com and redirect visitors here because sc3000.com has some caveats, such as no ability to register.

I think, SC3000 forum should has Omnibus zone since previous site has Knowledge Tree (like current Omnibus).

Also, don't forget to move SC4ever.com data here. Make the Knowledge Tree articles as Omnibus articles. I like these site because these site have some knowledge that ST & SC4D don't have.

May I copy contents from previous site for archiving to this site?

Thank you.

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2 hours ago, Chief ZDN said:

Is this replacement of SC3000.com that acquired 2009? ... Also, don't forget to move SC4ever.com data here.

Whoa! I personally wasn't even aware of either of those sites. About a week ago I had the idea to have a separate forum for SC3k here rather than having loose threads popping up in about 5 different forums. I sent @Cyclone Boom a PM asking about doing this and he replied saying Yes, that's a good idea.

 

2 hours ago, Chief ZDN said:

May I copy contents from previous site for archiving to this site?

Both of those sites have a message:

Quote

SC3000.com and SC4ever.com are now part of Simtropolis
4/28/09 - dirk
SimCity 3000Hello, visitor! Perhaps you've found your way here out of curiosity, or nostalgia, or better yet, you've just discovered or rediscovered SimCity. In any case, welcome! Simtropolis is a community dedicated to City Building games and we are pleased to have SC3000 and SC4ever as a permanent part of our community. If you're a former citizen, and you're looking for old friends, they are probably over at Wren's site. If you want to talk City Building, head over to Simtropolis. Thanks for visiting and enjoy the site.

So with that in mind, I'm inclined to say: Yes, absolutely. Go ahead and copy over whatever you feel is best. Make appropriately named threads for them and then all of you 3000 fans can decide which ones you want pinned. If there's going to be a lot of important threads, then maybe I should make one pinned thread as an index with linkys to all the others and pin only that one. (I feel having a dozen or so pinned threads clutters a forum.)

Here's the linkys to those sites for other peeps to peruse:

But, wait. I'd better not give the official approval myself as it could take up a lot of space here. Let's wait for Admin approval before you spend time copying stuff.

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59 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

But, wait. I'd better not give the official approval myself as it could take up a lot of space here. Let's wait for Admin approval before you spend time copying stuff.

There is an awful lot of information on those sites especially SC3000, I did indexes to both of their "Knowledge Tree" areas

At SC3000.COM its

https://www.city-builders.info/cb-documents/10-SimCity-3/56-SimCity-3-knowledge-tree

there is a lot less available at SC4EVER.COM I'm assuming because Simtropolis took over

https://www.city-builders.info/cb-documents/9-SimCity-4/54-SimCity-4-knowledge-tree

-catty

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On 07/05/2017 at 8:24 AM, Chief ZDN said:

May I copy contents from previous site for archiving to this site?

I've received approval from @Dirktator and I can confirm the answer is 'Yes'. *:yes:

You're most welcome to copy over information from SC3000.com as you see fit. As stated, ownership of the site & content has long since been acquired by Simtropolis (Dirk, our webmaster). Although no longer updated, it now serves as an information archive. That's the reason why the interactive features have been disabled, and it's now just a read-only site (which would also save on the operational costs to keep it online).

I notice the articles have been saved by the Wayback Machine, so thankfully we already have a secondary backup just in case. But there's surely strong value with having information not just preserved, but accessible in more than one location. With ST being one of the central hubs for city-builders, it does make sense for the info to be hosted here, for those interested in this legacy game.

 

On 07/05/2017 at 8:24 AM, Chief ZDN said:

Is this replacement of SC3000.com that acquired 2009?

No, it wasn't intended to be a replacement. This forum is more for actively discussing anything SC3K, rather than being a static collection of resources. As far as I'm aware, both SC3000.com and SC4Ever.com will remain online for the foreseeable future.

 

On 07/05/2017 at 8:24 AM, Chief ZDN said:

I think, SC3000 forum should has Omnibus zone since previous site has Knowledge Tree (like current Omnibus).

That's a good idea. The Omnibus would really be the most appropriate place to store such info here at ST. We can create a SC3000 dedicated category there to contain the articles.

For now, since there aren't an overwhelming number of discussion threads here, I'd suggest the best section to post them would be inside the "Other Games" category. Then they could be moved and categorised later on. But equally, I'm quite happy for them to be posted here in a single index resource with each article as a reply. The initial post could contain a linked list to each post.

Bear in mind it'll soon be possible to copy topics to the Omnibus via an upcoming site feature. So really whatever you feel more comfortable with. Posting a selection of the articles or the entire collection, it's completely up to you.


Let us know if you'd like anything clarifying along the way (technical or otherwise). *:)

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4 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

I've received approval from @Dirktator and I can confirm the answer is 'Yes'. *:yes:

Woot. That's good news. *:D

 

On 5/7/2017 at 3:24 AM, Chief ZDN said:

May I copy contents from previous site for archiving to this site?

Now that we have the official approval, let me know what you'll need from me. If you are going to do a thread with an index in the first post and then each subsequent post as a particular article I have some experience with this. CB taught me how to make the linkys go there directly without a page refresh in between. If the posts continue onto the next page (31st post) then the no-page-refresh thinger prolly won't work, but the linkys from the index will still be ok. Just they will do a page refresh before loading.

Perhaps, do a thread per major entry from @catty-cb's list. Like one thread for General Information, another for Getting Started, and so on. If you do this in reverse order and I pin and lock them, they would stay in that order in the topics list with the last one you create at the top.

Maybe put them directly in the Omnibus. (Personally, I feel they'd be more findable here, but with a pinned index here to each entry in the Omnibus that might give the best of both worlds.)

Or whatever idea you feel is best.

Anyhow, if you are doing the multi-post thing I hereby waive even the reduced 4 hour minimum for back to back posts for you. (You will have to wait about a minute between posts.) When I was doing one of these I stated my intentions in the first post and asked that no one reply till it was ready. That worked out fine. (But if someone does accidentally mess it up I can hide said post and they can re-reply with it later.)

Let me know your plan and what (if any) help you need.

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SC3K Unlimited from Gog is now running at normal temp, under 38°C, but the only connection I can make to it overheating was to the Origin/SC5(2013) install which was overheating.  After I completely re-installed Origin and SC5 the overheating stopped for both games, but there shouldn't be a connection there.  

Another issue I had to deal with was the resolution limitations of SC3K, for anyone who may experience the problem here's the link to the discussion on Gog. https://www.gog.com/forum/simcity_series/simcity_3000_high_resolutions/page1.  

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3 minutes ago, RandyE said:

Another issue I had to deal with was the resolution limitations of SC3K, for anyone who may experience the problem here's the link to the discussion on Gog. https://www.gog.com/forum/simcity_series/simcity_3000_high_resolutions/page1.  

That's on my agenda to check out sometime. I only need to go up one more notch on my dedicated game comp to 1600 x 1200. I did the screenshots for @huzman's Old Cities upload at the 1024 x 768 which is the most the in game options allowed me.

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Is there any possibility of having a sub-category under SC 3000 for maps, terrains and city files?  That is to distinguish these type of files from Maxis files and user-created buildings and landmarks.  

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25 minutes ago, Cool_Z said:

Hmmmm... those are maps, not terrains :ninja:

IN SC3U the three types of files .sct, .sc3, and .st3 all load as maps and city files equally so the terms are interchangeable, for a scenario an extra file is required with the extension .SNR.  For all intents and purposes a map is a terrain and a terrain is a map, and all load as city files, and are saved as .sc3 city files.    If all were grouped together and distinguished from buildings and landmarks and other tools or Maxis DLCs, what would we call them?     

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13 minutes ago, Cool_Z said:

Maps ? 

"A map is a symbolic depiction emphasizing relationships between elements of some space, such as objects, regions, or themes."  *:thumb:

The screen you are viewing is a 2D plane,  everything depicted on it may be considered a map, a symbolic representation of either a 2D plane or a 3D space, sometimes even 4D or 5D in form.   If you view a hypercube (a 4D space) on your screen, then it is still a 'map'.  A map that is 3D in material form would be called a 'model'. *:lol: 

Yes, I agree, lets just call them all 'Maps'  *:idea:

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Actually even if "terrain" would not be wrong either, SC4 and Skylines use "maps" for this category too... 

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The rule should be: the closer we stay on the 'natural' (lexical) meaning of the words - the more we avoid confusion and misunderstanding. That's why dictionaries are as important as codes of laws. If we don't respect them we hardly will find a common ground (and most of all disputes are disputes about meanings). So - to remain social beings it's essential to respect the meaning of words. That's really something essential for humans. To lose (steal, destroy, take away) meaning is always like getting closer to an animal state.

Think about it - there is a very good reason to keep the meaning of the words like something holy. Without meaning no sense. Wthout sense no ethics. Without ethics no humanity. Only animals with more or less intelligence. So who ever defends the meanings of the words has my sympathies. As intgelligence isn't what makes difference between humans and animals. There are intelligent animals too. But animals can't create sense or meanings.

A map can reflect the terrain but must not reflect the terrain, a map is a painting of something, a terrain is sometjing real. Yu can walk on a terrain but you cant walk on the map shown on your smartphone (or maybe you can - if you are really skilled, but you may understand the difference). The map is the thinking part, the brain part, the terrain is the physical part, the touchable, walkable part. Those are aspects  on the same thing. They may refer on the same reality but they are different entities (states of being).

Therefore @Cool_Z was absolutely right to make this remark. MHO.

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2 minutes ago, Fantozzi said:

A map can reflect the terrain must it must not reflect the terrain, a map is a painting of something, a terrain is sometjing real.

A physical terrain symbolically depicted on a 2D plane may be referred to as a 'relief' map.  Maps, models and terrains can either refer to a 2D representation or to a 3D material object.  Of course any 2D object ( a piece of paper or a screen) projecting a space, plane, object or symbol, is materially real.  Some would even say the concept, abstraction or imagination of the object or space is materially real, and others would say there really is no such thing as material reality as all particle and wave can be reduced to pure form.  *;)

So @Fantozzi you agree we call them all maps?   *:yes:  

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10 minutes ago, RandyE said:

So @Fantozzi you agree we call them all maps?

I think so. Basically it doesn't matter if the map is 3D or 2D. The question maybe if the map reflects the terrain. You can imagine maps where the terrain isn't reflected but only the network. On my smartphone (open street maps) f.e. there isn't shown the terrain but only the streets and buildings -the infrastructure. So in SC4 you have maps that are rendered into a terrain - so the confusion maybe because the maps mainly (only?) contains terrain information. So it might seem they are the same. But well, they are maps. Not terrain. One could say: the map can show terrain. But the terrain can't show the map. Second statement makes no sense. So I would agree, what we are talking about are maps.

But it's not me being the judge to decide. I'm not even a native english speaker. As said - we should trust in the judgement of a dictionary.

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1 minute ago, Fantozzi said:

But it's not me being the judge to decide. I'm not even a native english speaker. As said - we should trust in the judgement of a dictionary.

Its mostly for convenience sake to group the different meaning or types of files under one definition, not entirely accurate to the structure of each type of file and what it contains, but as a 'generalized' definition to distinguish from buildings and landmarks and other types of files.   I think if we were to use dictionaries and translators we'd keep finding more nuances of meaning that would keep us from ever agreeing.  My second choice was a subcategory called 'City Files', but that seems to immediately indicate that a 'city' has already been constructed on the 'map'.    In this sense 'Map' captures any city file, either blank, terra-formed, for terrain or as a starter or a scenario, and also a grayscale that can be rendered into a city file.   

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7 hours ago, RandyE said:

Is there any possibility of having a sub-category under SC 3000 for maps, terrains and city files?  That is to distinguish these type of files from Maxis files and user-created buildings and landmarks.  

We considered this, but thought tags are a more effective method of filtering. Since sub-categories are separate from being listed in the main category. At least for now anyway, and this could always be re-evaluated at a later stage once more files are added.

 

Terrain vs. Maps

I suppose this all originates from the terminology Maxis used with the game at the time, way back when these official files were available. Also the Terrain Generator, which functions as a development tool. Since we've been accustomed to SC4 where they're called Maps, it probably makes sense using this nowadays for the sake of clarity. I'd tend to agree that a map encompasses terrain (the landscape), and and also the area used for building a city (the location).

Interesting to note the config files included use the basic naming scheme:  mapspic_<NAME>.gif


So how about a compromise and append "(Map)" to the title?

E.g.
San Francisco Real City Terrain (Map)


Then it hopefully avoids any confusion, and helps to clarify this both ways. *:)

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3 minutes ago, Cyclone Boom said:

So how about a compromise and append "(Map)" to the title?

E.g.
San Francisco Real City Terrain (Map)

Right.  That's what I did in my upload of a city file as well --appended 'map'.   The title really seems to need to have the most important keywords in it for searching, especially on ST.  The file page description of the file can then further elaborate the specifics of the type of 'map' and its use.   So far, there may not be enough different files to justify a map subcategory, but the 'Revival' continues... :)     

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I named the Maxis content ones I uploaded as they came to me. Adding (Map) to the end is a good idea and I'll pop over there and do that soon.

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Deliberate Early Bump

I've added (Map) to each Real City Terrain. Doing a search for "map" doesn't find any of them, but it could be the site needs time to digest the additions. Now, should I also add (Map) to the Scenarios?

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38 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

Now, should I also add (Map) to the Scenarios?

The .sct files in the Terrains folder are .sc3 files given a different extension only to indicate that they are maps of real cities (sct = SimCity terrain),

The .st3 files in the StarterTowns folder are .sc3 files given a different extension only to indicate that they are 'started' city files (st3 = starter town 3000)

In the Scenarios folder are .sc3 files with associated .SNR files which script the scenario for the city file.

All the different files are the same .sc3 city files with different extensions.

Some of the files contain partial developed cities, some are blank, both are maps or tiles, but still distinct from a grayscale map that must be rendered into a city file .sc3. 

I think we may as well add the term 'map' to any file that displays a 'playable tile', whether blank or shaped or terraformed or including partial development of a city or an associated scenario.

They all may be used the same as a city file .sc3, but to only refer to them as City Files may indicate development of a city.

The term 'map' is generic to all purposes and uses, meaning a 'playable tile'

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