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CorinaMarie

RedNotebook SC4 Linkys Idea

56 posts in this topic

OK, earlier I also ran a test install of Zim for Windows inside Sandboxie.

A few general observations:

  • Nice clean simple interface.
  • Comprehensive, well presented help documentation (shows the devs care).
  • Edit and read only modes.
  • Quick navigation options to switch between pages.
  • Each page is saved as a plain text file.
  • Search is useful, and there are a lots of options for queries.
  • A range of plugins to extend the features. E.g. Tags / enhanced search
  • Basic formatting options.
  • Wiki type markup is used in the source.
  • HTML an option for exports.

 

Yeah, didn't have any success either with embedding an external image. Trying source edits and numerous combinations was to no avail:

Ym8H44e.png


This included an effort to 'attach' a Windows shortcut linking to an online image. Nope, nothing, nada.

Even if there was a workaround, there's clearly no built in feature for this anyway as desired -- like a simple paste URL to embed. I'm guessing because the program just doesn't connect to the internet, so isn't able to retrieve & load the image into memory. It'd need some sort of browser rendering ability for this to function, like how the post editor works here on ST. With so many files in the installation, all kinds of DLLs and such, you'd expect this to be included, but surprisingly it isn't.

Yes, it seems editing an exported HTML file is the only option, but that wouldn't be an automatic process and adds unneeded hassle. I think the whole purpose here is to edit and view all pages in a single interface. Therefore, everything needs to be functional from the outset.

 

Other observations:

Spoiler

When installing, the first thing I noticed was a whole load of bloat. The desktop version expands from an 18MB download to 130MB and includes close to 7,000 files in the installation. Funnily enough, a good proportion of these are images inside the "share\icons" folder. Also there are locale files for practically every language on the planet!

All this is very well for user choice, but is it really necessary by default, with no option to disable when installing? Hmm... :meh:

Also for what it's worth, the portable installation was slightly larger. It even needed installing and took just as long. Isn't the whole point of a portable app to run standalone with limited dependencies? The only difference seemed the data files are placed inside an "App" folder, making it appear like there are fewer files (when actually there are slightly more). Couldn't notice any immediate differences in them either. The main executables (zim.exe) were identical in both versions.

I see Zim hasn't received recent updates (latest was in Jan 2016). Usually when projects remain in a state of "prolonged stable beta", it's rarely a good sign for the future development of new features.

 

Oh well, this one did have potential and still isn't a bad piece of software. But for the intended use here, doesn't quite make the cut.

Never mind, RedNotebook it is then after all. *;)

If it does the intended task well enough, given the others have reached a dead end, I guess there's not much point in pursuing something else. Will try it out later and see how it performs...

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21 hours ago, RandyE said:

I went ahead and grabbed the installer. Then I went for the Documentation, but all 8 linkys for downloads are broken. (Yes, the text seems to be there on their site. It's just I cannot trust it'll be there part way into a project.) Since RN will already do what I want, it's a bit of a moot point. The idea of modifying the program was more to make @RandyE happy.

 

31 minutes ago, Cyclone Boom said:

RedNotebook it is then after all. *;)

I keep coming back to this conclusion as well.

 

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Before digging around in the source, it's probably worth getting the basic structure first in place. At least to properly understand what the program can and can't do. Maybe we can find some workarounds? Then if possible, making a few tweaks could always be done as a side project. The data sounds easy enough to import and test on different installations, so that shouldn't be a problem.

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7 minutes ago, Handyman said:

Sweet. The sub linkys there do work so I got the PDF version.

 

Ok, how about the Full instructions and list of dependencies from the RedNotebook source code page? (I did get the source itself.)

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39 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

Ok, how about the Full instructions and list of dependencies from the RedNotebook source code page? (I did get the source itself.)

The correct link seems to have an ".md" extension added to the end:
https://github.com/jendrikseipp/rednotebook/blob/master/README.md  *:read:

(Listed on the index)

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1 hour ago, CorinaMarie said:

The idea of modifying the program was more to make @RandyE happy.

Okay Here I am inside the Python Shell with Rednotebook source loaded... where do we go Cori?  *:thumb:

Image2.jpg

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21 hours ago, RandyE said:

Okay Here I am inside the Python Shell with Rednotebook source loaded... where do we go Cori?  *:thumb:

Well, the first step is to make sure we can compile the whole thing and get the same .exe as the original. I suspect right now you'd get about a zillion and three errors unless you have the dependencies installed too. Ergo,

  • PyYaml (>=3.05)
  • PyGTK (>=2.16)
  • pywebkitgtk (>=1.1.5)
  • python-enchant (optional, needed for spell checking)

Once we've achieved compileability, then it's time to take a few baby steps and see how difficult it is to add or change things. One really simple thing I want is to add a hotkey to the insert menu for Title.

Insert%20Menu%20Org_zps2zgxppga.jpg

I'd like Ctrl+T to do that for me and put the cursor right in the middle ready to type. It's nothing big cause I can type the appropriate amount of = signs, but it'd be a nice easy step.

I'd also like to have Ctrl+Something pop up the Insert Picture dialog. Then add a new entry of Ctrl+W for a web picture. This latter one would just pop up a box like the Insert Link does, but one would then paste the URL into the top part and the bottom would make an insert entry with the ["" and "" and ?800] parts in the right places. The 800 happens to be the size I downsize my pics to so they show without a side to side scroll bar on my monitor at 1280 x 1024.

This, ofc, brings up the idea that I'd like to add a preference entry for the default resizing size. So, I'd make all mine 800, but someone else might like 960 or whatever. My idea here is that whatever one sets the default to would override the text files if it is different than what I post online. (Prolly have to have a conversion option which would do them all in one fell swoop.)

Next on my wish list is that the Forward and Back buttons will act like they do now going from one entry to the next only if the search box is empty. If I have searched for something, such as #SC4_Mapping, then I want the buttons to jump forward or back to only entries which match the search. Right now it still just goes to the next entry. (I tested by adding random posts in between my map entries.) If I can do this then there will be no need to group things in consecutive posts. (Btw, I'm using the words posts and entries synonymously.)

So, if I can actually accomplish the above I feel I'll prolly have gained enough knowledge to then tackle bigger things.

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On ‎2017‎-‎03‎-‎21 at 4:47 AM, CorinaMarie said:

I did search on their site thru some of the questions and found that the Category option used to be over there and it was removed.

I'll go collect all the dependencies and as well make sure we've got the same complete build.  As quoted above, if the Category option was removed, maybe I can find it and we can put it back in?    Yes, 800 by default is good, not too big, not too small.   Maybe search parameters could be added,  so you could search within a keyword or relative to an entry or date, etc.   Wow, so much stuff... baby steps...       

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37 minutes ago, RandyE said:

I'll go collect all the dependencies and as well make sure we've got the same complete build.

You know, this is really cool. *:) I feel like I'm the auto mechanic saying: Ok, I need a ¾" deep-well 6 point socket, a ratchet, a jeweler's flat blade screwdriver, a BFH, (and another beer) and you are getting them for me. *:lol:

I'm wondering if we should get the exact version listed (if older ones are available) rather than the or > part. Sometimes later things bork something. Like I have some very old games off eBay that say they need Win 3.1 or later and won't run at all in Win XP. (They lied to me.) :O

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37 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

You know, this is really cool. *:) I feel like I'm the auto mechanic saying: Ok, I need a ¾" deep-well 6 point socket, a ratchet, a jeweler's flat blade screwdriver, a BFH, (and another beer) and you are getting them for me. *:lol:

It gets even more interesting, we don't know what make or model the car is and there's no standard manufacturer's specs.   I sure hope the programmer commented throughout the code and doesn't have a PhD in computer science.

Okay, so an exact version with no transitional bits --maybe the one with the category option still in.  Got it.

EDIT:  The first thing I'll make sure it can be compiled into an .exe.  Without that its 'game over' anyway.

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Random thought:

If possible, as they'd be minor additions or tweaks, maybe it'd be worth incorporating such changes as DLL plugins. Otherwise I'm guessing the whole program would need to be recompiled each time. Should there be official updates to RedNotebook adding useful features, a plugin could still function alongside. Whereas creating an updated EXE may "lock down" the possibility of updating, since custom changes would need merging or re-evaluating in a new release.

Interestingly after installing RN, I noticed the installation is distinctly similar to Zim. This I think is because both are written in Python. For example, it shares many of the same libraries and modules (some identical, others slightly different in version). I'm wondering since that supported plugins, whether the same also applies here for RN.

I don't know, just something which came to mind. Take it for what it's worth...

Although I'd be willing to explore it further, programming isn't so much my current area of expertise. I've really only played around in VB, figuring things out to a limited extent through trial and error. Never used Python or the like, so whatever works and gets the job done is fine with me. *;)

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Posted (edited)

56 minutes ago, RandyE said:

I sure hope the programmer commented throughout the code

Yes, there's decent comments. For example:

def search(self, text, tags):
        """
        This method is only called for days that have all given tags.
        Search in date first, then in the text, then in the tags.
        Uses case-insensitive search.
        """
        results = []
        if not text:
            # Only add text result once for all tags.
            add_text_to_results = False
            for day_tag, entries in self.get_category_content_pairs().items():
                for tag in tags:
                    # We know that all tags are present, but we loop through
                    # day_tags nonetheless, to escape the day_tags.
                    if escape_tag(day_tag) != tag:
                        continue
                    if entries:
                        results.extend(entries)
                    else:
                        add_text_to_results = True
            if add_text_to_results:
                results.append(get_text_with_dots(self.text, 0, TEXT_RESULT_LENGTH))
        elif text in str(self):
            # Date contains searched text.
            results.append(get_text_with_dots(self.text, 0, TEXT_RESULT_LENGTH))
        else:
            text_result = self.search_in_text(text)
            if text_result:
                results.append(text_result)
            results.extend(self.search_in_categories(text))
        return str(self), results

Here it seems that search is a 3 dimensional array which references itself for the name and then can contain the text found and the associated tags. The results.extend(entries) is the function to add the text to the results array which match the search criteria.

I'll need to find the variables definitions to see if they are allocated as static size or dynamically extendable for the number of entries. I would guess by now only dynamic would be used, but back when I did that COBOL thing they had space limitations and used a fixed length array. The whole program collapsed cause the thinger got full. (You've prolly already seen that convo between Granpa Moose and me, but if not let me know and I can find the linky.) Anyhow, one concern is that we won't break the program at the 1000th or 10,000th or whatever entry.

Anyhow, tho the syntax is different than what I've programmed before the concepts themselves don't change a whole lot. Like elif is prolly what I know as elseif. Any variable (sub something else) is an array of data of one dimension. Variable (sub, sub) is two dimensional and so on. So the main loop here is that we are deliberately saying if there is text for day_tag that matches then we add it to the list. From there we'd want the Forward and Back buttons to search thru that list and not just the next entry which contains text.

Or something like that. (I'm getting a wee bit intoxicated atm and this may not make any sense at all.)

:O

P.S. And yes, I've considered looking at the older version source for the Category part too.


  Edited by Cyclone Boom

Fixed the auto-acronym that showed "str" as Single Track Rail. This is now case sensitive. ;)
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2 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

Interestingly after installing RN, I noticed the installation is distinctly similar to Zim.

I was going to mention Zim again too.  Weren't we happy with it except for the one thing that it didn't go online and embed pics from URLS?  It also is GNU GPL open source written in Python, and if we really only need to change one thing...

2 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Or something like that. (I'm getting a wee bit intoxicated atm and this may not make any sense at all.)

Scary how I actually almost understand almost all of it...  Its a scripting based language like Cobol, BASIC, HTML <-- where we started :} 

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I read the 141 page Python Tutorial for 2.7.13 this morning and it all seems like a wonderful language. I understood prolly 90% of it. *:)

I downloaded and installed:

  • Python 2.7.13 from here.
  • PyYAML 3.12 for 2.7 from here.
  • PyGTK All-In-One 2.22.0-1 from here. (Clicking the link to the file list here.)
    • I was still getting errors saying no GTK so I got the GTK+ for Windows Runtime here.
    • But didn't help. Then I got PyGTK All-In-One 2.22.6 from here.
    • And that got rid of that error. (I'm not sure if I still need the main GTK+ or not, but I believe so.)
  • PyWebkitGTK 1.15 from this list.
    • However, it's not a windows installer so it's just the uncompiled bindings.
    • I found a link mentioned by the author in here to what I need, but it's dropbox and borked.
  • PyEnchant 1.6.8 from here.

I'm now at the point where I do the: Python Journal.py and get:

DEBUG    Windows screen language is 'en' (lcid 1033)
DEBUG    Set environment variable 'LANGUAGE' to 'en' ('kernel32.SetEnvironmentVariableW')
DEBUG    Set environment variable 'LANGUAGE' to 'en' ('msvcrt._putenv')
DEBUG    Set environment variable 'LANGUAGE' to 'en' ('msvcr90._putenv')
INFO     chardet not found. 'utf-8' encoding will be assumed
2017-03-25 18:06:31,973 INFO     Writing log to file "C:\Users\Owner\.rednotebook\rednotebook.log"
2017-03-25 18:06:31,973 INFO     System encoding: mbcs
2017-03-25 18:06:31,973 INFO     Language code: en_US
2017-03-25 18:06:32,894 ERROR    pywebkitgtk not found. Please install it (python-webkit): No module named webkit

It's all happy now except that one thing and all my research leads me to believe I'll have to have a Linux install to compile the PyWebkit bindings for use on Windoze.


12 hours later and I'm done with this failed experiment. *:(

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4 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

12 hours later and I'm done with this failed experiment. *:(

I'll go through it all tonight and see if I can get the program to run, but I'll spend some more time looking for other programs first.  I'm more positive that If I dig a bit deeper I'll find one.   I programmed similar note-taking/journal/catalogue type interfaces in BASIC long ago using multidimensional arrays and bubble sorting, but the wheel has been re-invented so many times since, it now requires 25,000 hrs. and 5 PhDs to do what we used to do as a weekend project with high school math.   Anyhow, at least we have yet another project on the list of things to do and Python is a friendly language, just apparently needs a bit of taming as probably do most of the open source programmers --go to school for 25 years to write a 'hello world' program and make it look like the ingenious master source code for SC4?   Okay, I have an idea *:idea:  I'm going to use SC4 to catalogue the STEX. *:thumb:             

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11 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

It's all happy now except that one thing and all my research leads me to believe I'll have to have a Linux install to compile the PyWebkit bindings for use on Windoze.

So that missing dependency means the only other viable alternative is the Linux version? Hmm, they sure don't make it easy... :meh:

To be honest, with no clear pathway, it sounds like a myriad of things could go wrong with installing that lot. Different versions and combinations, and they're not easy to find. Perhaps this is a reason why development for RN has been rather sluggish in recent times...

Frustratingly I'm guessing that link to the zip would've worked if not for Dropbox disabling shared folders the other week. Maybe a possible way forward is by contacting the author and see if they can re-upload or fix it? Might be a long shot though.


From what I've gathered, it seems like PythonWebKit provides the internet browser functionality. In other words, to load the external images into the application as desired. So in which case, the very incentive for using RN may well be holding this effort back.

If Linux would be required throughout development, that clearly is an added hassle. Or worse still if it ruled out Windows as the target OS (for compatibility). Otherwise maybe one of us could setup a Linux install on a virtual machine, should it only be necessary for a limited extent. Though without in depth know-how of these things, I take it the task of compiling wouldn't be a straightforward task.

Ah well, if this really has hit a brick wall, don't be dismayed -- it certainly wasn't through lack of trying. Also the knowledge gained here may always come in useful some other time.


I guess the next question is what next?  Maybe it is worth looking for more options, or revisiting Zim and seeing if that can be developed?

However with this I foresee one major hurdle:

According to this page, it doesn't require pywebkitgtk. Now, this may be good news in terms of compatibility and working with the source. However without the browser framework, sounds like that explains why the external images didn't load. This means the WebKit engine would be needed, which is the very issue being encountered right now.


For what it's worth, I did find a list of supposed alternatives from this list. *:read:

Some of those do seem interesting at first glance. Or we could always go along with RedNotebook and try to make the most of it unmodified. Then always come back to modifying the source at a later stage if practical.

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10 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

Maybe a possible way forward is by contacting the author and see if they can re-upload or fix it? Might be a long shot though.

Yep. That occurred to me and from having read lots of his other replies, I suspect it'd be a short shot inasmuch as he seems quite helpful.

 

10 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

If Linux would be required throughout development, that clearly is an added hassle. Or worse still if it ruled out Windows as the target OS (for compatibility).

As I understand it, I only need the complied version of that addon to drop in the Python directory and from there it'd be good to go. The target OS is apparently already built into the language so the final .exe will run on the supported platforms of Linux, Windows, and Mac.

 

10 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

Otherwise maybe one of us could setup a Linux install on a virtual machine, should it only be necessary for a limited extent.

I'm sure I could toss Linux on any one of my extra dozen comps. It's just that seems like a lot of work not knowing if the end result would allow me to edit and compile the RN source on Windows or not. If someone is already a Linux guru and wanted to do it, I'd certainly drop the files in where they go and see if that's the last hurdle or not. Otherwise, I'm just putting the Tweak-RN-Myself idea on indefinite hold.

 

10 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

For what it's worth, I did find a list of supposed alternatives from this list. *:read:

Turns out to be worth it's weight in gold! *:thumb:

I did the read more and went to the official home sites for the first 15 on the list. I made my notes and saved direct linkys (in RN, btw) so I could report back with my first impressions.

Spoiler

Rednotebook Alternatives
http://alternativeto.net/software/rednotebook/?license=free&platform=windows

Simplenote
https://simplenote.com/
Registration required and it appears the notes are shared via their web service. Windows 7+ (so no XP)

wikidPad
http://wikidpad.sourceforge.net/
Looks pretty good. Question: Can it do the web picture display?

CintaNotes
http://cintanotes.com/
Free version way too limited.

NixNote
http://nixnote.org/NixNote-Home/
Seems weak and unsupported. User Manual linky broken. Can attach pictures, but not sure if web pics.

Leanote
https://leanote.com/
Cloud based storage.

EssentialPIM
http://www.essentialpim.com/index.php
Cloud based storage. Seems like mostly a To Do list manager.

WizNote
Official Website linky broken.

KeepNote
Discontinued.

Piggydb
https://piggydb.net/
Has standalone Windoze package. Minimal info. Would have to test. Seems web pics will be supported, but not local pics. Reguires logging in with Name and Password.
" There are two ways to embed images. One is to write image URLs in content, which must start with "http" (file: is not allowed by the browsers because of a security reason). The other is to register image files as file fragments (there's the text/file switch in the fragment editor) and embed them with the wiki formatting:

fragment:<another-fragment-number>:embed

Please refer to the Wiki Markup Help which can be opened via the help button [?] in the editor menu. "

^ This one looks pretty good.

MyTetra
http://webhamster.ru/site/page/index/articles/projectcode/138
Cloud based data?

Tracks
http://www.getontracks.org/
Mostly a To Do manager. Cloud based, but option for local webserver.

Elephant
http://elephant.mine.nu/
This one appears to be worth a test drive.

Magpie
Discontinued.

OutWiker
http://jenyay.net/Outwiker/English
Looks extremely good!

Once I got to OutWiker, I felt it was so impressive looking I've downloaded it and been playing around with it. I believe this is the one!

Let's start off with the two drawbacks:

  1. Minimizing the program actually closes it. :O
  2. Resizing of Web Pics is supposed to work, but I haven't found how to make it actually work.

The good parts I'll show with pics. *:)

Wiki Style Entry:

01%20Wiki%20Style_zpsslqtkoir.jpg

 

One button click (or F4) to toggle Preview:

02%20Preview_zpsgygq4zlr.jpg

 

Another click and @RandyE will be bouncing up and down with excitement:

03%20HTML_zpsyuw84021.jpg

 

Automatically created in the folder for that page:

04%20Content%20HTML_zpsp3ydvcwi.jpg

 

Double click __content.html and it opens in the default web browser:

05%20HTML%20Opened_zps0crfbc8k.jpg

 

Click one of the tags and get:

06%20Tags_zps5s4af3nf.jpg

^ The tags choices are global. Atm I only have one separate tag for this early testing.

 

Here I created a Search page and gave it a search tag:

07%20Search%20Page_zpsi4er77tb.jpg

^ You can also search for words in the entry box.

Attached is my test data. Place it anywhere and then navigate to it from within OutWiker.

Edit: My install included the All Plugins Package. *;) And I've left a message on Jenyay's site about the two issues I mentioned above.

Test.zip

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7 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Minimizing the program actually closes it. :O

It doesn't put an icon on the taskbar, but its still running minimized in the system tray. *:ohyes:

8 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Resizing of Web Pics is supposed to work, but I haven't found how to make it actually work

The editor Is not working for HTML, :noway:

I can't edit a tag for width and height  Gray%203%20Treed_zps5ujntdrd.jpg.  The cursor is fading in and out like the Chesire Cat.

8 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Another click and @RandyE will be bouncing up and down with excitement:

I almost went through the roof when I started the program and looked at the what it should be able to do, but now I'm going to try a couple of the other ones you thought might be promising...   and then I'll go googling for 'outliners'.  :LlamaLeap:  

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15 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Turns out to be worth it's weight in gold! *:thumb:

Glad that list was useful. I somehow managed to stumble upon it whilst researching the RN stuff, and seems quite a nifty site. It's surprising there's so many of these journal type programs, each admittedly with their own quirks.

So I downloaded & installed OutWiker (OW), and imported the test data. And yes, it does appear to be another with lots of potential. *:yes:

 

15 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Resizing of Web Pics is supposed to work, but I haven't found how to make it actually work.

Nice to see images auto-embed from the URL, but I've not had any success with resizing them either. It's a shame there isn't an insert image dialog, and a simple option to set the size accordingly. That would make the task a whole lot easier.

The syntax with the percentages is a little weird, and doesn't really stand out visually [like square brackets do for example]. Some defining colour would help at least for this purpose.

I guess it'd take some getting used to, which wouldn't be a problem if it worked as specified. Either there's a bug in the program, the documentation is wrong, or we're somehow missing a necessary step (I'd guess the former).

 

7 hours ago, RandyE said:

It doesn't put an icon on the taskbar, but its still running minimized in the system tray.

Yeah, it seems to be hidden in the tray's overflow menu by default (on Win 7).

Inside OW, I found an option to control this in:  Preferences (Ctrl+F8) > Interface > Minimise to tray

Although rather annoyingly, when restoring the window again, it only returns back to a partial size (at least for me anyway).

 

7 hours ago, RandyE said:

The editor Is not working for HTML

Seems like it's a read only 'editor' -- not sure how that's of much use unfortunately. The fact it has a cursor implies it's editable, but isn't.

To set the size, I was able to edit the HTML file externally using:

<img src="http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p184/CorinaPics/Gray%203%20Treed_zps5ujntdrd.jpg" style="width:800px;">


This was then loaded and previewed correctly at 800px width.

However as easy as this is, again would be adding an external step to the process.

 

I notice this is mentioned in the FAQ on the main page:

Quote

Will there be a visual editor for the pages?

There are some thoughts to make a separate page type format RichTextFormat with the visual editor. Please do not exclude the possibility that there will be a visual editor for HTML-pages. But still I can't talk about dates.


So perhaps, but unlikely anytime soon.
 

---------------

Overall, OW does seem to do most things well, except for the obvious drawbacks with the image sizing.

Maybe it's worth testing one of the newer beta versions. The latest (2.0.0.812) was released last week, compared with the current stable version from April 2016. In the changelog there are numerous mentions of "bug fixes", so those could be useful.

The mention of them being specifically 'unstable' sounds a bit ominous though... :uhm:   (More like alpha)

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9 hours ago, RandyE said:

It doesn't put an icon on the taskbar, but its still running minimized in the system tray. *:ohyes:

Oh. And it's even hidden in the little corral box:

08%20Minimize%20Hidden_zpsh0anzviz.jpg

 

2 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

Inside OW, I found an option to control this in:  Preferences (Ctrl+F8) > Interface > Minimise to tray

Ok. So that was already set by default (or I'd already toggled it on). I even added the Always show tray icon, but it still goes into that little hidden box when minimizing. *:(

09%20Preferences_zpsuelyerez.jpg

 

9 hours ago, RandyE said:

The editor Is not working for HTML, :noway:

2 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

Seems like it's a read only 'editor' -- not sure how that's of much use unfortunately.

Yeah, I didn't expect it to be a full editor, but more like a quick reference while in the program. And the __content.html is like an automatic export rather than having to select that option from a menu.

 

2 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

This was then loaded and previewed correctly at 800px width.

Loaded in OutWiker? Or just when viewing the file in a browser? And if in OutWiker that it's ok, what happens if you edit more in the Wiki Tab? Does it then overwrite the changes you made to the HTML file? (I have to get ready for work in a few moments so I don't have time to test that right now.)

 

9 hours ago, RandyE said:

I'm going to try a couple of the other ones you thought might be promising...   and then I'll go googling for 'outliners'.

Sounds like a good plan. Note that I only gave a cursory glance at the first 15 in CB's linked list. There are more beyond that which I didn't go to since I started test driving OutWiker.

 

2 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

Maybe it's worth testing one of the newer beta versions.

That could be worth a shot. I like how this program is in active development.

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6 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

The latest (2.0.0.812) was released last week, compared with the current stable version from April 2016.

 I installed the latest 'unstable' version, but no luck with changing the image size, the thumbnail code still doesn't do anything.  Other than that I'm liking this program a bit more, and it would be really useful if the HTML view was a live editor.  If you were successful in editing HTML outside the program that seems to mean it should be easy for it to read user input of code directly and then display a preview.

I went through the alternates on Alternate.To using several keywords like 'Outliner', Organizer, Note-Taking, Journal, etc. and after going through about 100 different apps, I still didn't find anything better.   

4 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Ok. So that was already set by default (or I'd already toggled it on). I even added the Always show tray icon, but it still goes into that little hidden box when minimizing.

Cori, uncheck 'Minimize to tray' and you will then get an icon on your taskbar when you minimize.   The 'little corral box'  IS the system tray. *:lol:

In my travels I did find an interesting HTML editor that looks a lot like the same interface and codes in HTML 3.2.  I will find this useful for my purpose of cataloguing and making preview pages for my uploads, but I think what you are looking for more so Cori is like a 'live' journal where you're adding, referencing and sharing text, links and pics as you're interacting with others and websites.   

We just might have to start programming in Python from the start.  'Helllooooooo Woooorrld!!'  :ooh: 

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10 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Ok. So that was already set by default (or I'd already toggled it on). I even added the Always show tray icon, but it still goes into that little hidden box when minimizing. *:(

6 hours ago, RandyE said:

Cori, uncheck 'Minimize to tray' and you will then get an icon on your taskbar when you minimize.

Yes, unchecking this will allow OW to the minimised to the taskbar (the expected behaviour for an application).

Here's what I've found the other checkboxes do:

Ze7Vof2.png

Start iconized:  Requires "Minimize to tray" enabled, and will immediately show the icon in the tray, and not in the main taskbar.

Always show tray icon:  If the first option is checked, this doesn't do anything as it's shown regardless. Otherwise it enables the tray icon even when the program is minimized to the taskbar.

Minimize on close window:  This makes the "X" button on the window behave like minimize. The program can instead be closed by: File > Exit.  Or hitting Alt+F4.

Ask before exit:  Self-explanatory. Shows a confirmation popup when choosing to close the program.

 

10 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Loaded in OutWiker? Or just when viewing the file in a browser?

Yes, custom HTML changes do load in OutWiker's Preview mode.

However...

 

10 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

And if in OutWiker that it's ok, what happens if you edit more in the Wiki Tab? Does it then overwrite the changes you made to the HTML file?

Houston, we have a problem...

I've just tested this and unfortunately the bad news is it does overwrite and custom changes from the source file. :noway:

I suspect because it isn't converted and doesn't show anything in the Wiki editing mode. Then when adding any new changes to the page, the data is lost as a result. So I think that well and truly puts an end to that workaround.

 

6 hours ago, RandyE said:

We just might have to start programming in Python from the start.

Well, there is the proverb:

"If you want a thing done well, do it yourself"


But surely it's an easier task to make use of one of these programs. After all, the intended purpose isn't too intricate -- just a few specifics to make the task more user-friendly. It mainly needs to function as a basic catalogue of info, which properly handles external images, and is accessible in terms of searching and finding.

If none of the others are any use...

Out of all the main options pursued thus far, which one do we think has the most merit? RedNotebook, Zim or OutWiker?

To get this project off the ground, it may well be worth starting out even if the program isn't perfect. Because later on, it might be possible to import the data into a new format if there's a suitable alternative.

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6 hours ago, RandyE said:

 I installed the latest 'unstable' version, but no luck with changing the image size, the thumbnail code still doesn't do anything. 

Phooey. *:(

 

13 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

To set the size, I was able to edit the HTML file externally ...

I've now tested this and sure enough after the edit it's fine in OW. (I used 600 pixel to be sure it'd be noticible.)

11%20600%20Pix%20in%20OW_zpsdg5o0m8v.jpg

However, as soon as I made a new edit in the Wiki tab it went back to the full sized image. This workaround isn't good enough since I'm always tweaking stuff for tpyos or how I've phrased something or just adding new information.

 

6 hours ago, RandyE said:

Cori, uncheck 'Minimize to tray' and you will then get an icon on your taskbar when you minimize.

Ah. Ok, I did that and now it works except for the problem CB mentioned. When waking it back up it forgets that I had it maximized.

 

6 hours ago, RandyE said:

The 'little corral box'  IS the system tray. *:lol:

You don't say? I thought this part was the system tray:

System%20Tray_zpsjgqlvsjq.jpg

 

6 hours ago, RandyE said:

We just might have to start programming in Python from the start.

No sense reinventing the wheel. If Jenyay fixes the URL pic resizing thinger then I believe we will be all set with OutWiker.

 

6 hours ago, RandyE said:

'Helllooooooo Woooorrld!!'  :ooh: 

Yep.

10 Print "Hello World"
20 Goto 10

And then one can do more sophisticated stuff from there like check for a keypress in between.

Edit: So, that's a weird, but prolly proper board reaction. Your ( @Cyclone Boom ) post is 3 minutes later than mine, but is located before mine. I suspect you started yours before me, but finished typing later and the space was reserved from the time you entered the editor.

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2 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Edit: So, that's a weird, but prolly proper board reaction. Your ( @Cyclone Boom ) post is 3 minutes later than mine, but is located before mine. I suspect you started yours before me, but finished typing later and the space was reserved from the time you entered the editor.

Hmm, funnily enough by hovering over the post times, here it shows I happened to post 2 minutes earlier:

Post #1660377

R2yg5Nj.png

Post #1660378

JifxJUF.png


Relative to time zone difference, does it show different times than these?

Since this is stored in the site's database, not sure why they would be. Maybe try a force refresh?

 

2 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

If Jenyay fixes the URL pic resizing thinger then I believe we will be all set with OutWiker.

That would be brilliant if so. *:yes:

Even if they could acknowledge it as fixable for a later version, or in an upcoming beta release. The worst thing is often sending a message and receiving no response at all. Silence can be deafening. So receiving any response would be a positive, and you'd think this is more likely since they're a dedicated freelance or small team.


By the way...

Giving the beta version a quick whirl earlier, I didn't notice the much promised instabilities. I guess that's just a disclaimer like with most work-in-progress software. If anything, I thought switching between pages was faster (there was flickering for me in the 1.9 version).

 

By the way (by the way)...

Seeing as this has diverged more away from SC4, do you think it's worth moving this over to say General Off-Topic?

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3 minutes ago, Cyclone Boom said:

Relative to time zone difference, does it show different times than these?

Nope. The hover over does show them as you say tho each 5 hours earlier for me. I hadn't looked at that part. It's just when I came here from the beep it was showing yours like 16 minutes ago and mine 13. Weird. I wonder, if like in chat, the posted time for me is based on my computer's clock.

 

5 minutes ago, Cyclone Boom said:

The worst thing is often sending a message and receiving no response at all. Silence can be deafening.

I scrolled back and notice nearly every reply by Jenyay was within one day of the other peep's post and addressed the question or suggestion specifically. That's not to say he isn't off on vacation or something, but my intuition says I will get a reply.

 

7 minutes ago, Cyclone Boom said:

Seeing as this has diverged more away from SC4, do you think it's worth moving this over to say General Off-Topic?

Yeah, that's prolly a good idea for this thread. Once we have established which program to use and I have some decent data input in it, I'd prolly make a new thread which would be geared to downloading the program and importing my data files. Convo would then be about what to add or tpyos to fix and such.

Hold onto your seats everyone. Thread is moving...

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