• Moose
  • Announcements

    • Dirktator

      Need your donations for May & June!   05/01/2017

      We need your support to help keep Simtropolis online. We also need a little bit more this month to enhance the new chat with some features, such as mobile support! Please consider a donation today if you can help out, it would mean a lot! And we'll send you a little gift in return.  Help us reach our May goal so we can keep bringing you site improvements as well!  Donate and Get a Gift or Donate Any Amount Thanks so much! - Dirktator & The Admins
boformer

Paid mods? Or paid extra features?

91 posts in this topic

Just a random thought, not an actual plan:

In theory, it would be very simple to add a paywall/licensing system to a mod. That means you can only use certain features when you enter a valid serial number (the number is bound to a steam account).

This serial number could be obtained by donating to the modder, or by contributing to a crowdfunding campaign. I'm not sure if it would cause any legal problems.

What do you think?

mikamaty, OcramsRzr, gfvsims and 1 other like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I need to think about it a little more, but my first thought is that I like community-based and -fueled initiatives to monetize mods/assets better than one in which the publisher is involved. Primarily because all the money will go to those who earn it - like I said in Shroom's Art Deco DLC topic, the thought of Paradox doing basically nothing while still cashing in on the work of members of the community leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth (although obviously it was Matt's own decision to jump on board). Also, maybe even more important from a creative point of view, the community members involved in such a collaborative effort will maintain control over the entire process, from working out an idea, decision making, settings limits/guidelines and implementation-based decisions all the way down to sharing the spoils - it's a collaboration-based effort in which all participants are on equal footing, remain independent from commercial parties, and are more flexible to make alterations to the course that has been taken based on feedback or changes in insight. Lastly, the people involved will be hobbyists/enthusiasts of the game, a background that vastly differs from a corporate initiative, which ultimately only has one goal, and that is making money (let me be clear that I'm not saying Paradox is greedy, but ultimately it is a business, driven by different incentives than players/community members).

Mmm.... turned out to be quite an essay for an initial thought :D 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm willing to pay a few Euro's for a mod if it means long-term support on the mod (updates and fixes). I've seen so many awesome mods that were abandoned after a short while, and in a case like that I would like a refund. I was already willing to donate if authors had a Paypal link, because I believe modders deserve it. Programming and modelling takes time, and time is money. We all do it because we like it, so it's all voluntarily. And together we make the game so much better, in a way that the game is already worth double the $30 I paid for it, thanks to so many cool mods.

But let me just say this: I'm willing to pay, but I'm talking about single digit prices ($1 to $9) and it has to be worth it. (quality & continuing support)

mikamaty, gfvsims, OwiHH and 2 others like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tim The Terrible said:

But let me just say this: I'm willing to pay, but I'm talking about single digit prices ($1 to $9) and it has to be worth it. (quality & continuing support)

I was thinking about small amounts, like 0.50€-2.00€. And of course all donors would get special support.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I could make a living doing this I would but I think this is a slippery slope to go down...doable but very scary and risky. Let's keep in mind, compared to other simulators/game communities, the city builder community have enjoyed over a decade of free content by fellow members and any leaning towards paying a fee to enjoy custom content will be met with resistance. It would've been better if something like this was in place from day one for Cities Skylines before everyone got spoiled.  I'm sure there are many who wouldn't mind paying but the community will have to go through a sort of bloody revolution until the dust settles and see if the modding community survives. If it does, great but things will be different.

I really wish that players who praise content makers so much would show more appreciation with the donate button for whoever have one. I don't have one because I'm lazy about it but my real reward is having creative power to change the game to my liking visually (oh that don't exist...I can make it!), seeing my stuff in screenshots and being used on YouTube. But don't get me wrong... if there was a way to get paid doing this, it would be a true case of not working a day in my life to be able to buy a beer or pay a bill because I love making content for this game and will continue no matter what for the foreseeable future. First and foremost, I am a player of the game.

But I do believe developers like Boformer, Bloody Penguin, SamSam, Lazarusman, PropaneDragon, Linuxfan, Judazz, TPB, Alterran, and many others who get into the code should have some kind of extraordinary support because if they just left, update time would be a nightmare.  Not sure what kind of support but something. Maybe we should start a donation campaign certain times of the year for them.

Also keep in mind there are all sorts of things to consider once going the commercial route  like if using textures made by someone else, models and in some cases what programs we use and the End User Agreement involved with them. Then there's the usage of code that's shared among members....will someone totally block access to their code instead of sharing on Git where someone like TPB or Judazz can make an awesome new mod? Or someone who wants access to code to make non-monetary mods? As it is now, we don't have such worries except to avoid plagiarism. So aside from legal matters, there's also how we share information. As it is now, the generosity is awesome.

To part of Judazz thoughts- Shroom agreed to do what he was asked to do most likely under a deadline. It's not like they asked Shroom to give them assets he already created. He probably made more money than he ever would've if waiting for donations. So it was a contract just like if someone paid me to paint a mural with a specific subject THEY came up with. So basically it's our skills to make a product they would be using, not so much using what we create for the game on our own. So in the case of Shroom's contract, I think it's a different animal from an ongoing monetary condition set on workshop items. I do see your point in the sharing of profits long-term and who gets the most of it. I have no idea if Paradox would let us do what the Flight and Train simulator community does. I think the main difference is we can play those simulators completely independent from Steam and it's updating system so there is a lot of "off to the left" and version choice opportunities there so crews from a community have more freedom to do their own monetary things. Not sure how that works but it's something to study. It's like we are in a marriage with Cities Skylines and where the official developers take it. There's no going back to version 1.3 as an option where a certain mod is limited to work because the author left at that point.

To Boformer's thought, if access to a feature is denied unless a donation is given, it's a charge not a donation. A donation is by definition something given freely in a charitable act. Not saying something is wrong with charging, just call it what it is.

Just my 2 1/2 cent big wall of text :D

Avanya, gfvsims, nos.17 and 6 others like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Mr_Maison said:

I really wish that players who praise content makers so much would show more appreciation with the donate button for whoever have one. I don't have one because I'm lazy about it but my real reward is having creative power to change the game to my liking visually (oh that don't exist...I can make it!), seeing my stuff in screenshots and being used on YouTube. But don't get me wrong... if there was a way to get paid doing this, it would be a true case of not working a day in my life to be able to buy a beer or pay a bill because I love making content for this game and will continue no matter what for the foreseeable future. First and foremost, I am a player of the game.

But I do believe developers like Boformer, Bloody Penguin, SamSam, Lazarusman, PropaneDragon, Linuxfan, Judazz, TPB, Alterran, and many others who get into the code should have some kind of extraordinary support because if they just left, update time would be a nightmare.  Not sure what kind of support but something. Maybe we should start a donation campaign certain times of the year for them.

Maybe it would be better to have some kind of crowdfunding campaign with a goal (e.g. 100€). When the goal is reached, the mod will be developed and published without any access restrictions. Backers would get personal support + a postcard/T-Shirt/etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That sounds like a really good idea, Boformer. I think Gula used to do a similar thing (before he got a new job). I also don't mind the idea of paying a small amount for a mod, if it's definitely going to be maintained.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a tough question. Ofc our modders deserve some rewards - the game wouldn't be the same without them! Mr_Maison brings up some good points about openess and sharing - to me that's a very important and wonderful part of this community. I definately lean much more towards the crowdfunding way. It rewards the modders for their time, it's something we can all help promote and contribute to, and the whole community will benefit from it in the end. 

gfvsims, Mr_Maison and Judazzz like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a mock up. As for paid mods, it's a trickery slope. I think first and foremost modding should be about contributing with eachother to make achievable a common goal: to make the game more enjoyable, beautifull and more playable/realistic than before. Yes, some people take it a step further and they should be rewarded for the immense amount of time they put in. But personally I'm like what's a 100 Euro/dollars going to be a difference on top of my paycheck every month. That sorta money doesn't get me excited.

That's why I think the buildingpack is a good idea. You can invest some more time in it, work professionally and get rewarded structurally. I understand the same can't be done for modders. IMO CO should hire you and BP to extend on some systems and release them in a patch/expansion. Not sure how realistic that'd be thought. Having patreon goals might be the best option next to that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You shouldt contact the SC4 modders because they had same questions i believe and found a good solution. I saw they sell packages on cd but the whole content is free downloadeable. I like the crowdfunding or donation solution. You know how it is - pay for win and games are dieng. Even if you start doing this with 50 cent or a euro others come in and charge people off - also you will get blacksheaps who try to scam off people - all a bad taste we all do not want that.

You can actually charge allready workshop content within steam but that needs to be leagal because you are selling stuff commercial. Thats a big progress even you start with small amount money. But lets make a small calculation:

networkskins:

current subscribtions - 76667

that wouldt be 76000 € for a 1 Euro charge!

Thats 14440 € tax you need to pay or Granny Merkel slaps you with her big taxing hands.

So you are way over the free-income-amount and germany (i know hes form germany)  like to tax you. If you dont - you can get big trouble - well i think you know that.

Donations from friends are free until you reach 20000 €.

So, if you charge for content you need to know what you are doing - even more doing it public over the i-net.

We dont wanna have you sitting in prison modding for us - you wouldt have allooot time ;-) *joking

Avanya and Feindbold like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This subject has really made me thinking a lot. I also think that a paid Workshop would be quite tricky for a whole lot of reasons, one of which would be its popularity... I'll take the example of Skyrim that I've never played but there is this article on the front Workshop page that explains that they cancelled the idea of making some mods payed because of the huge backlash... The Workshop should probably stay as it is for the player (free of charge) because fundamentally it is a place where people share stuff that they like to create for others to enjoy.It just wouldn't feel the same if some stuff were purcheasable, In my opinion that's more the role of the upcoming Art Deco DLC.

That's from a consumer point of view, but modders and modelers no doubt deserve a reward for the gigantic amount of time they spent tremendously improving the game. Some of them totally deserve to be able to make a living out of it if they want to. And that's where I feel hypocrit, because I wouldn't want paid Workshop features, I still want to support those that I feel deserve it, and I've actually thought a couple of times about donating but never did it. I think the moment has come when I really should. And the crowdfunding system mentioned above seems really interesting.

I think there is also the risk that paid items would have the risk of taking away the passion for creating stuff. I know those I would like to support really love what they're doing and I'm sure they wouldn't start to intentionally favour quantity over quality but when you get paid for something, I think you consider what you are doing differently, even completely unintentionally. Of course I can't be sure of that and it probably wouldn't have much impact for the most passionate of contributors but it might take away a bit of the magic.

All that is just me rambling about the subject but what comes out of it for sure is that I want to really start supporting some of you out there!

Mr_Maison likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lost_gecko said:

I think you consider what you are doing differently, even completely unintentionally. Of course I can't be sure of that and it probably wouldn't have much impact for the most passionate of contributors but it might take away a bit of the magic.

I think it would be an extra motivation for me to complete a mod, and to keep a mod updated.

I don't really need the money, so I never set up a donation link. It just makes me sad that the amount of donations for other creators is so low.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@boformer I totally understand, the dilemna for me is that I would prefer to only give money if I want to but on the other hand I don't even do it so it's clear that an insentive of some sort wouldn't hurt...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's a great idea for modders to be able to charge a little bit for their mods -- 25 cents to a dollar sounds about the correct range. We'd lose the important mod-downloading demographic of "11 year old kids with no credit card" but who cares?

I think the issue is going to be that a small number of people are going to be making big bucks with this, as OwiHH mentioned above.  76000 is a big chunk of change -- enough to hire, for instance, good lawyers.

What I'd be afraid of happening at some point  is that modder #1 will make a mod and charge for it and demand royalties from anyone who creates content using that mod, and then modder #2 refuses to pay or acknowledge those royalties while making big bucks off his derivative content, then modder #1 goes to his legal team and sues not only modder #2, but also steam, colossal order, paradox interactive, whoever builds this paid modding platform, everyone who's downloaded modder #2's content, santa claus, and basically every party with the slightest involvement and ruins the game for all of us.

I think that it is worthwhile to get someone who knows the law to look at this to limit everyone's liability, or at least so we know exactly who is liable for what and head off situations like this before they are apparent.

boformer and gfvsims like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

I don't really see the point of charging for mods for a videogame. Whilst I think the biggest backlash from the Skyrim fiasco was more down to Steam wanting to scrape 70% of the top, the real issue here is what do you gain from charging and at what expense?

Yes if everyone chipped in 1€ for a mod, you could theoretically make some serious cash, but is that really likely? I think the moment you try to monetise this, you will leave a large bunch of users behind who either can't pay or won't pay. One thing is for sure, getting to a point where you could consider such payments as an income is going to be really hazardous, likely that will be something only a small number would ever be able to do, if at all. So basically you are asking people to pay you to continue your hobby, it kinda goes against the "community" ideal. For example, were it not for the donations over the years to Simtropolis and SC4D to keep the sites running, do you think we'd be where we are today, discussing this? Conversely, if you are making money using Simtropolis, shouldn't they have a right to ask for a cut? After all, it costs them money to host your discussions/support threads or downloads. Steam don't provide these things because they love you, they've used them as a way to monopolise gaming on PC. Steam have all the control, so if you think you can make a buck, without them getting a cut, you probably also think Gabe Newell is your best friend and not a very rich businessman.

...

That's exactly how I feel! Could not agree more with you.. And the fact that you are actually a contributor makes it even more important! I still believe that the reason why SC4 made it this far, and hopefully skylines does too is because of the community. Sure, some people will pay, but what about the people that wont? I dont know.. to me, community and money dont get along, you either share and have fun with everybody, or you can make some dollars a month and destroy the game in a couple of months.

Cyclone Boom, Mr_Maison and rsc204 like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

Perhaps a more sustainable method is to introduce other ways or incentives for donations. For example, early access or a temporary benefit. This is not to take away from the countless hours modders put in. In many cases, such effort is deserving of a monetary reward. Some may view this differently, but personally, I believe the greatest reward for an author is seeing content used and enjoyed. This shows that you've helped people, and your efforts were worthwhile. Money is momentary, and especially on this scale, it would impact the user more than the creator.

That last part is my primary motivation as well: apart from using my - limited - C# knowledge for something different than web sites/applications (which is my day job), which enables me to learn, or in the very least get acquainted with things I'd never work with professionally, I find it incredibly rewarding to see people proudly sharing screenshots spiced up with Eyecandy, and reading comments on my Workshop page about how much joy people get out of my work - that's a bigger prize than money could ever offer (I make a good living with my job, so what money donations would bring to the table isn't going to impact my financial situation). As Mr_Maison said, I'm a player first and foremost, and when I read comments on my stuff that mirror my own sentiment towards the amazing work of other modders/modelers, it just fills me with joy - and that's pretty much all I want from my work (funny aside: I showed a friend of mine, who doesn't play the game, my Workshop page, and they first thing he said was how amazed he was by the positive and friendly vibe, about the good-natured and easy-going way people interacted with each other within our little community).

As far as monetization goes: one of my biggest problems with it is that it will split the player base in sections, whereas it currently is one big community: obviously not everyone gets, or can afford all DLC. I see plenty of questions on Reddit what the cheapest place to buy a DLC is, or when there will be a sale - I doubt each and every one of them is extremely frugal, and while for me personally I sometimes catch myself thinking "C'mon dude, it's just 10 bucks", I know that that is unfair, and for plenty of players it simply is an expense that needs to be carefully considered (it's easy to loose track of such things when you are fortunate enough to be in a position that you don't have to worry about money). But apart from official DLC, on the whole it's currently pretty much a level playing field for all players.
I don't want a situation where some players can afford to get all the bells and whistles, whereas others cannot: at least not on the level of community-produced content (DLC is a different matter). However, there are several approaches that could combine the best of both worlds: the best one, in my opinion, may be a phone app-like approach, with a free and a premium version. The free version will contain basic functionality, the paid version will add additional "premium": this way, in case of a traffic mod, all players would get the basic features such as lane selection and traffic light toggling, whereas the pro version would add features like timed traffic lights, configurable speed limits - I think you guys get the gist of what I'm trying to say. I think this approach would be a pretty inclusive way of offering free community content for all, but ads an additional layer which would create a modest stream of revenue for modders (for modelers it's a different matter, although I reckon they could split a collection in a free base set, and a paid 'plus pack' with some additional, more exclusive or detailed assets).

Ideally though I'd prefer the situation to remain as is: no monetization of custom content unless strictly donation-based (if anything, Steam should make that easier [Steam Wallet integration?], but I'm afraid they would sooner or later want to get a cut if they did). It's inevitable some start creating content hoping to make money, but personally I think that's not the right approach: creating custom content should be something one does as a hobby, as a way to give back something to the community - any cent made from it should be viewed as a pure bonus, not something that is a given. I know not everyone will agree, and that's ok - above is simply my own personal view on this matter.

Avanya, rsc204, Feindbold and 4 others like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 28/08/2016 at 3:29 PM, rsc204 said:

I don't really see the point of charging for mods for a videogame. Whilst I think the biggest backlash from the Skyrim fiasco was more down to Steam wanting to scrape 70% of the top, the real issue here is what do you gain from charging and at what expense?

Yes if everyone chipped in 1€ for a mod, you could theoretically make some serious cash, but is that really likely? I think the moment you try to monetise this, you will leave a large bunch of users behind who either can't pay or won't pay. One thing is for sure, getting to a point where you could consider such payments as an income is going to be really hazardous, likely that will be something only a small number would ever be able to do, if at all. So basically you are asking people to pay you to continue your hobby, it kinda goes against the "community" ideal. For example, were it not for the donations over the years to Simtropolis and SC4D to keep the sites running, do you think we'd be where we are today, discussing this? Conversely, if you are making money using Simtropolis, shouldn't they have a right to ask for a cut? After all, it costs them money to host your discussions/support threads or downloads. Steam don't provide these things because they love you, they've used them as a way to monopolise gaming on PC. Steam have all the control, so if you think you can make a buck, without them getting a cut, you probably also think Gabe Newell is your best friend and not a very rich businessman.

...

Beautifully written and I agree 100% with what you said..  I myself believe it would probably more than likely destroy the community, as has been said many times in this thread just look at the backlash over the Skyrim fiasco..

Mary Maurine Mayo likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the crowd sourcing is an interesting idea, one easy place to donate. Maybe a once a month community sponsored GoFundme or donation drive to spotlight one particular modder, or featured Top 5 or 10 assets/mods per month in which donations are solicited so a person could donate a total of 5 dollars for example in one transaction, but all going to different modders. 

When I started, I thought about setting up a Patreon or linking my PayPal, but I saw how low Shroom's Patreon was and I'm no where close to being as good as he is, so it wouldn't even be worth the effort for me to try to solicit donations. I'm fortunate enough that I can waste hours (and hours, and hours, and hours) per week creating assets and not need any additional income. I'm an amateur artist, and creating assets has all but replaced my painting (it's cheaper and the clean up is far easier). I also get to share my art with 1,000s of others instantly rather than paintings sitting around my place gathering dust. 

I think it's a hard sell to get CSL gamers to pay for anything. They whine and complain for DLC that's cheaper than a happy meal or starbucks, and that money goes to the developers. Then I think about casual people that spend lots of money on all the sh***y iphone app games and their paid content/coins/subscription. Probably would be more profitable for CO to do pay for play games. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Judazzz said:

...

However, there are several approaches that could combine the best of both worlds: the best one, in my opinion, may be a phone app-like approach, with a free and a premium version. The free version will contain basic functionality, the paid version will add additional "premium": this way, in case of a traffic mod, all players would get the basic features such as lane selection and traffic light toggling, whereas the pro version would add features like timed traffic lights, configurable speed limits - I think you guys get the gist of what I'm trying to say. I think this approach would be a pretty inclusive way of offering free community content for all, but ads an additional layer which would create a modest stream of revenue for modders (for modelers it's a different matter, although I reckon they could split a collection in a free base set, and a paid 'plus pack' with some additional, more exclusive or detailed assets).

How much times you downladed a programm or app that was named free to find out that the features you expected to be free are premiumfeatures and you disappionted uninstalled it?

For me thats a point like mentioned befor - it will split the community and blacksheeps will abuse that.

Judazzz likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, kingleno said:

I think it's a hard sell to get CSL gamers to pay for anything. They whine and complain for DLC that's cheaper than a happy meal or starbucks, and that money goes to the developers. Then I think about casual people that spend lots of money on all the sh***y iphone app games and their paid content/coins/subscription. Probably would be more profitable for CO to do pay for play games. 

Yes, that's what really annoys me. That minority (?) who want everything for free and never even bother saying thanks to the creator, who has put hours and hours of work into something that they are sharing for free. I guess I just want to see creators properly rewarded for their efforts, even though I know that most, if not all, of them don't expect to be paid.

I do like the idea of those who donate maybe getting a say in what's made (Gula did something like this) or getting early access to a mod/asset. That way no one ultimately misses out on anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 27/08/2016 at 11:11 AM, boformer said:

Maybe it would be better to have some kind of crowdfunding campaign with a goal (e.g. 100€). When the goal is reached, the mod will be developed and published without any access restrictions. Backers would get personal support + a postcard/T-Shirt/etc.

add to the backer's extras list: early access - so if you're in need of testers all your backers get access via a hidden steam subscription and that would help you guys out too with development. anyone who shares the files with someone not backing would be booted out too ;)

catty-cb, gfvsims and mikamaty like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, OwiHH said:

How much times you downladed a programm or app that was named free to find out that the features you expected to be free are premiumfeatures and you disappionted uninstalled it?

For me thats a point like mentioned befor - it will split the community and blacksheeps will abuse that.

For me it's very simple: I don't buy apps, because for everything I ever need to do with my smartphone (which isn't much, I barely use it for things other than chat, mail, checking news and listening to music), there's a free app available: I'm one of the 3 or so remaining Windows Phone users world-wide, and the OS offers everything I need out of the box (and often much better than paid-app alternatives).
But get what you mean, though. However, the main motivation for app builders is making money, and when it comes to making money, no play is dirty enough these days. With modding, I expect the involved parties on the seller side of things to be more honest about it (which may be naieve, but I believe the vast majority of uploaders do their thing for fun and the love of the game), so as long as they would provide a good description of what is free and what is "premium", I don't expect too many problems with that. Especially since the community is pretty tight-knit, and frauds are usually singled out very quickly (in case of a shameless re-upload by someone claiming another person's work as his/her own, it usually takes a few hours at most before the first comments start to appear that blow the lid on the thing).

As far as your last sentence: I wholeheartedly agree with that. I mentioned that commercialized modding will split the community in haves and havenots, which is categorically undesirable, and quite possibly the end of the modding community as is. For me, maintaining the status quo would be the most prudent move: the one thing that should change is lowering the threshold to donate to your favorite Workshop artists by offering much, much better mechanics for voluntary micro-transaction in the Workshop itself - preferably through the giant yet apparently invisible elephant in the room, the Steam Wallet - literally every single Steam member has one, for crying out loud. If Paradox wants to make more money they should get their own hands dirty instead of mooching off the 'open-source' modding community. Any attempts to monetize (something I oppose in principle, but I'm realistic enough to realize that it is the future - unfortunately) should be initiated and maintained by the community itself, without outside (commercial) interference.

gfvsims and Avanya like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ENTERTAINMENT ARTS.  EA already owns all rights and reserves all rights.  Barking up the wrong tree here, however, nothing is standing in the way of a few good programmers from developing an SC4-Like application, but that goes far more into the worth actual real money world than a few amateur hobby hackers with delusions of grandeur.    Gimme some source code.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can just see the inferno of anger if this was the case, but I do agree on the fact that modders deserve a "medal" or more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I paid $1 per download I would have invested over $10k so far. Even though I don't really have a problem with buying cool buildings, I think it would be like the ipod days when people finally realized spending over $10k on a toy is a waste of money. The same amount of money could send a kid or two to community college. Also, some of these buildings aren't very good. What happens then? It can't be like a vending machine with a checkout button where you plop the money in and the download comes out. I have lots of buildings that are either ugly, lame, or just plain don't work, whether it be brown boxes (after triple checking for dependencies) or zoom out problems or whatever.

One scenario I thought that might work is if you made custom buildings people wanted, and they paid to get them early before everyone else. Let's say for example I don't know how to make buildings and I can't sign up for BAT'ing school. Now let's say I want the Addison Hotel in Detroit, MI made. I will give you $1 to make it, and then I get it a full week before it's released onto the STEX for everybody. Then I can fancy it up and make a cool homepage-featured town all based on the Addison Hotel and everyone would be all jealous and wiggling for the rest of the week with anticipation.

For that matter, I will pay you $200 to make every single building in the city of Detroit for me. :)

Personally, I don't think legally any of this would work out, and I also think the range of BAT-making talent is so extreme that too many people are going to get their feelings hurt. I don't think it's a bad idea, I just don't think it's a great idea.

Addison%20Hotel.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one in the SC4 community is even remotely thinking about charging for their work.  Every time someone has offered to pay the NAM Team to come up with a feature, we've advised that they instead donate the money to one or more of the sites that are responsible for keeping the community alive.  It's all a moot point anyway with SC4 due to the EULA provisions.  I know people love to give EA flack, but they've done some things very right with SC4.  That restriction on sale and their general hands-off treatment of the modding community (provided we don't distribute hacked EXEs) have actually proven to be brilliant moves, which have kept the game alive nearly 14 years later. 

I don't know as much about Paradox/CO EULA for Cities: Skylines, but I take it from the existence of this thread that there is no prohibition on sale.  Running through the scenarios of what a city-simulator community would look like with paid mods and assets being the norm, and thinking back through my experiences in the SC4 world, I can't really envision a scenario in which the C:S content development community starts charging for mods and doesn't flame out spectacularly within a year's time.

Look at a project like the NAM on the SC4 side.  Imagine trying to split the money between team members.  Between releases, our development team goes through lineup changes--we're like the band Yes.  Most of our changes have been simply the result of people disappearing due to RL, but there's been a couple more acrimonious splits, more along the lines of what you might see in a 70s prog rock group.  Those are ugly enough without money involved.  Once cash starts trading hands, it becomes possible to prove monetary damages, and the ideas of modders suing one another is no longer a theoretical scenario that we can merely laugh about on the forums.  Granted, it'll probably be small claims court, but still.  Additionally, rather than larger community efforts that result in more features being added to the game, there's a good likelihood that some modders would start to factionalize into smaller competing groups (less profit sharing), trying to outdo each other on the same concept, producing mods and assets that are purposely incompatible with one another.

Charging for mods outright has the potential for irreparable harm, and given the fact that CO/Paradox threw all their eggs in the Steam Workshop basket, the only real benefactor would be Gabe Newell, who, as @rsc204 pointed out, will most certainly want a substantial cut.  Valve will get a short-term bounce off of it--CO/Paradox might as well if they take a cut--but then, the bubble will burst and C:S sales will crash in SC2013-style fashion.

-Tarkus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank-you for upholding the good spirit and good sense of a non-monetary, non-political, cybernetic culture that I have known, participated in, and experienced over several decades,  and its a culture that is extremely valuable in its human resources and values.  Polluting this culture with financial and/or political interests would seem to me to be too over the top destructive of one of the last remaining free social communication formats of rational people in which people can share information, ideas, expression without fear of the money-grubbing and political psychopaths in this unfortunately ethically impoverished world.   

With all the above said, if I do happen to come along a significant amount of investment capital at this point I would surely be interested in reaching out to the modders of SC4 to develop a commercial replacement  --it would be an awesome project.  Bottom line is SC4 is a masterpiece of electronic art, and that's why most of us are here.

As for the defensive and over-sensitive modders, instead of wasting time telling me to delete my free account on a free social media site, why don't you just send your resume to Electronic Arts delineating your skills and qualifications.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an Account  

Sign up to join our friendly community. It's easy!  :thumb:


Register a New Account

Sign In  

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now


  •  
  • Similar Content

    • By Ronyx69
      So I was recently looking at some Japan driving videos and got inspired to make some highway pillars.
      I'm planning to make an entire set of various types of pillars in this style, even a 6cell over-canal pillar. (if it goes okay)
      Tell me what you think about my first attempt, I need to nail the style and the details before I start making other variations.
      Constructive criticism welcome, also any ideas.
      By the way, do pillars have LODs like regular buildings? I should just make it just the pillar, without the small details - pipe, wires, supports.
      Not sure when they're going to be done and available.

       


       
    • By AmiPolizeiFunk
      As expected, my save failed to load. What's the protocol here? Should I disable all mods and try to add them back one-by-one?
       
      Let's help each other out by listing out mods that have been broken and should definitely be disabled. Who will go first?
    • By vitusweb
      Hi everybody,
      as I am starting to experimenting with asset creation (I am using Blender), I start this topic to share projects and problems.
      My first big issue is about underground textures. I have read some old posts about this topic, but I am still unsure I can apply them in my case. I am trying to get something like in the attached figure (side view). The building should "come out" of the sloped terrain. I can already get this effect easily by using one of the standard building templates, but of course textures aren't applied below the road level. If I use the "Japanese Garden" template as I read in some posts, I just get a mess, because the building becomes terrain conforming and the "underground" part does not show up at all (I have tried with the "Flatten Terrain" flag both on and off). Can anyone suggest a solution or a working asset of this kind which I might reverse engineer? I guess ModTools will be required, but I am new to it. Thank you very much!
      By the way, is it allowed to share also maps in this section or is it reserved to mods and assets?
       

    • By Mr_Maison
      Hello everyone. This will be my custom content showcase and workshop thread. In all the years I been a member here, I never uploaded any content but enjoying great work by other members. I take this opportunity to say Thank You to all content makers for making our city building experience so enjoyable. I feel that making content is overdue for me and I want to give back to the community. I have some buildings and trees that I will be showing in upcoming updates to this thread. I will also be asking for advice and help.
      5/16/2017 Release:Tulip Clusters Link http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=927209955

       
      More info on last pages of this thread.
       
       
      Note: This post was edited 5/29/2015 to reserve this first post for all current updates.
       
       
    • By PUGG3RS Gaming
       
      How to blend in Ploppable Asphalts Tutorial
      Hello Guys, have you ever tried to join two roads together whilst detailing with ploppable asphalts but got the horrid gap? Then this is the video for you on how to blend it! 
      Tutorial Video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA3YwS8uxmI
      Ronyx Ploppable Asphalt - http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=881291183&searchtext=asphalt
      http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=926353813 
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.