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OcramsRzr

Combining my ideas (6 wealth levels, complex economy, growth stages)

45 posts in this topic

Now you know why statisticians are often regarded with the same respect as astrologers.

What??? Statisticians and astrologers are respected by vastly different demographics. Statisticians use math and science to understand the past, optimize the present, and predict the future. Astrologers believe everyone is impacted by the heavenly bodies in the night sky--the original definition of lunatic (person affected by moon) and influenza (the mythological force from stars). One does not run the economy with observatories! Then again, lawyers should not run healthcare (doctors should) ... but ... well ... baby steps.

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There are soft sciences that have a hard time justifying their existence: Statistics (it is very easy to get a 95% confidence level), Political Science, Economics, and even Medicine which is an art completely surrounded by science.  Be careful in applying the scientific method.

The most horrible thing that occurs in science is when some glorious, beautiful theory is demolished by some little ugly fact.  Recently the Standard Model in particle physics was smashed to flinders by the fact that neutrinos have a least three colours and therefore must have mass.  Any bets on the (mythical) dark energy/matter ideas?  I quote Dr. Einstein: "God doesn't play at dice, but He is very subtle."

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Statistics is a field of mathematics used by scientists to analyze data on the past, come up with a rational explanation, and use their findings to make predictions for future experiments. The Scientific Method requires Statistics (and Logic, and internal Ethics (aka honesty), and experimentation...) but Statistics can be used with hard sciences and soft sciences alike. Often a 95% confidence is not good enough so you might want to run enough experiments to make up for the standard deviation. I'm in a course on statistics for engineers this semester. Statistics works great for engineering and hard (non-biological) sciences because experiments can be repeated many times by many researchers in many places under many conditions. Statistics are far less certain (and useful) when dealing with living things that don't like being experimented on. However, biological and soft sciences require statistics to get meaningful results. Findings from soft sciences cannot be considered science at all if the "researchers" don't properly use Statistics and the Scientific Method. At best, their pseudo-scientific (fake science) "findings" get published by some incredible (not credible) soft media (gossip) source that looks superficially serious (like NBC).

 

Anyway, a simulation is an estimation of some aspect of reality and requires valid models and the correct mathematics to get any sort of decently accurate approximation of what is simulated. That means a simulation of cities (how they work, how they change) with respect to time requires an economical (everything relating to money, goods, and services) model, a political (interactions and reactions of persons, firms, and governments) model, a transportation (all forms of infrastructure from power lines and water mains to planes, trains, and automobiles) model, and an environmental (land, buildings, parks, and all other features of or over the terrain) model. By their very nature, city builders and the like rely on imperfect (inaccurate) and simplified (imprecise) models from the soft sciences.


  Edited by OcramSeattle

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Sports often have advanced statistics as well.

Dedicated baseball fans for example enjoy using advanced stats to compare various players; some of the advanced stats include Wins Above Replacement and such.

Advanced statistics are used to calculate the odds a team would win a major championship series.

Many good general managers are statisticians as well.

Those statistics can be implemented in the game to see which person prefers which sport for example.

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Sports often have advanced statistics as well.

Dedicated baseball fans for example enjoy using advanced stats to compare various players; some of the advanced stats include Wins Above Replacement and such.

Advanced statistics are used to calculate the odds a team would win a major championship series.

Many good general managers are statisticians as well.

Those statistics can be implemented in the game to see which person prefers which sport for example.

Yes, but there the universe of discourse is complete.  There is no sampling, but simply reduction of the data.

One of the U.S. presidents said once, I believe, that there are liars, damned liars, and statistics.

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A Nonny Moose, be nice!  Besides the fact that it's just a bit off topic at this point in the thread, I feel your right to opine is being a bit too intrusive on young aspiring minds, IMO at least :D.  Not saying you shouldn't opine, just be a bit more...civil in your truth telling as it were.

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Heh!  Marco can take worse than that.  Nice isn't in me anymore.  Just old curmudgeonness.  The whole thing is rather getting away from helping improve the game, I am afraid.  I am not sure that discrete wealth levels are appropriate for simulations of the magnitude that this is becoming.

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Political leaning is when you level an apartment building and place a walgreens in its place, which unlocks additional mayoral condomansions. 

I think the roads and buildings should be timed too like the energy plants, especially the wood and brick buildings. I like all the ideas, but the first thing that needs to happen is the sims need to be able to drive incredible distances to get to and from work. After that, a broad residential reducer would be great. I don't see the point of the freeway system if every city is two and a half miles square. Expanding fire protection and educational radiuses would be swell. 

If somebody wants to explain why some of the (maxis) buildings have trees and grass planted on the back side of the building that'd be awesome too. 

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@A Nonny Moose is right, I can take far worse than what @Architechnid mentioned. I didn't even notice!

 

OK, it seems like there is some confusion about my idea for the economy so I will give examples of the various proposed mechanics and how they work at different "difficulty settings."

 

Education: Each citizen has one of 11 education levels. This aggregates on the education map with everyone uneducated showing a flat line at 0 EQ and everyone maxed out on education (through cheating or reward buildings) as 200 EQ. That makes the difference between 2 education levels 20 EQ points. In a tiny village with varying education, the EQ graph will likely jump stepwise between (monthly?) census dates. In a sufficiently populous city, the EQ graph will look continuous. All buildings have a "minimum education to enter" stat and an "education provided stat" with the default for both being 0. In "daisy world" (simplest sim), elementary schools have 0 minimum education required and 3 education provided, middle schools have 1 minimum education required and 4 education provided, high schools have 3 minimum education required and 6 education provided, community college has 4 education required and 8 education provided, universities have 6 education required and 11 education provided, and local libraries require at least 3 education but provides an increase of 1 point regardless of education level (capped at 6). The education provided metric corresponds to the maximum education possible after a sufficient amount of visits. Cheap offices require 5 education and provide 0. The most modern, wealthy offices require 9 education and provide 0.

 

Resource chain:

Fields can grow produce, staple, or fiber crops on fertile land or trees on forests, otherwise nothing grows.

Mines extract coal or ore.

Textile mills take fibers and make cloth

Lumber mills take logs and make lumber and sawdust

Food processors take staples and make processed food

Groceries, markets, and restaurants take processed food and fresh produce and distribute them to customers (restaurants make them happier but provide less food)

Heavy Industry takes coal and ore and turns them into metal.

Manufacturing Industry turns metal into "durable goods," cloth into clothing, lumber into furniture, and sawdust into paper.

Offices take paper and provide logistical support (office services) to factories.

Drilling, Quarrying, and High-Tech Industry not in "Daisy World"

Industrial imports and exports require the appropriate storage and distribution buildings (explicitly built (plopped or zoned) by mayor). Freight train stations, sea ports, and freight airports locked before appropriate storage and distribution buildings are built.

 

Wealth levels

R$ work in fields, mines, and retail

R$$ work in mines, factories, retail, and cheap offices

R$$$ work in factories, malls, and all offices

R$$$$ only work in the biggest, wealthiest offices

Poverty and top 1% not in Daisy World

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Well, that's interesting, Marco.  However, I don't think it will do much for this particular game specification.  I really feel that Anselm and Michael are developing a whole different specification, and it would be nice to view it.  Have you looked at their wiki stuff lately?

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No, I have not checked the wiki since August. Perhaps I should. Anyway, "Daisy World" is inaccurate to describe the simplest form of my mod. SimCity Classic (Micropolis) is the "Daisy World" of city building. BTW, the original Daisy World game had you play as some supernatural gardener on a lifeless but potentially fertile planet. You start with 1 black daisy on a cold planet. The sun slowly heats up the planet (which you can speed up by planting black daisies) until you can start planting white daisies. The game ends when the planet gets too hot to support life. The furthest you can play (I think score was measured according to the game's geological time) is achieved by carpeting every last place on the planet with white daisies.

Currently (prealpha) CityBound (according to the last video I saw taken from within the game) is 2 steps above SimCity classic but in 3D using ECMAScript (which are all quite the accomplishments for an amateur programmer). I want to see CityBound eventually reach 3 steps below Cities: Skylines in graphics but 1 step above (current level of expansions for) Cities: Skylines + Cities XL + SimCity 4 + SimCity (2013). BTW, Cities: Skylines is roughly the intersection of Cities XL + Anno 2070, with small differences.

CXL ∩ AD 2070 < C:SL  (C:SL is a little uglier but more complex than that)

2/3 CXL  2/3 CiM2 ∪ 1/2 AD 2070  C:SL (more accurate)

SC4D ∪ LC-NG ∪ CXXL ∪ SC2013 ∪ C:SL ∪ CiM2 - "next gen graphics"  CityBound with Complex Economy


  Edited by OcramSeattle

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Unfortunately, I think that notwithstanding the fact that the boys are writing their own graphics engine and working on wide-spread multitasking, I am afraid that the 3D render with a free camera will eat the system, as will the simulation.  I hope I am wrong, but I think we are at the limit of this technology.

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I presume 3.JS can render any (3D) parametric surface with simple textures without any problems using a GPU. Currently, we have only seen solid-colored planes so I don't know what the limits are. I have, however, seen the agent system with trucks supplying shops with food from farms and goods from factories, people driving to work and retail, and inter-city traffic. My idea for a Complex Economy mod uses functions already in the game, extended with resource deposits, land value, education, utilities (which should all eventually be in the vanilla game), variety, modified survival (to accommodate pay grades) and modified happiness (to accommodate variety of consumer good choices, tourism, and "political leanings"). I will begin work on my mod as soon as I have the time to work on a released version of the game with the ability to modify what needs to be changed to accomplish my goals.


  Edited by OcramSeattle

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As soon as factories require an input (ie metal) and both input and output (goods) can be imported (and output exported), it will be possible to begin implementation of the mod, with diversification of inputs and outputs as well as diversification of vendors for the new outputs. Once utilities are implemented, recycling (makes industrial inputs) and compost (makes fertilizer) can be modded in.

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