Jump to content
anselm_eickhoff

Developer Diaries Discussion

Recommended Posts

So far, I haven't been able to run it because I need a new GPU (have needed one for some time).  One of these days....  I should have known that anything on a DRM site would be el punko junko.  If you can't purchase it outright without any strings, there is something wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AE, thank you so much on your theories to urban geography.

 

We can implement stuff from Kevin A. Lynch, especially from his 1960 work The Image of the City as well; Citybound would only need five features: paths, edges, districts, nodes, and landmarks.  Due to its reliance on the formation of mental maps, the game can be made completely abstract, which would save so much processing power.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...so in the light of realistic economics, the city is now a 1D line? I'm probably not understanding something here (maybe only as far as the economics engine is concerned) but that is sounding like a lot of detracted fun, especially as the competition now includes skylines.

how would the fantastic road engine work, for example, in 1D?

 

 

And the whole "everything goes to the CBD" is severely flawed in real situations. Yes a business district grows in the CBD, but that is merely a centralization of multinational office environments congregating around cultral and historical monuments, because land value and demand. Other commercial districts sprout up in local shopping strips and other high land value areas across the city. Industry will grow outside of the cbd - way outside, and is usually influenced more by policy and transport options than any such simple economic laws.

 

Large cities like LA and Sydney are really suffering because all of their jobs are IN the CBD. Government is spending tens of billions on new freeways and public transport projects to help get people from far distant suburbs into the city centre, but the government planning authorities recommend establishing more jobs on the city fringes to break up traffic flow and still have employment but have it more accessible and contribute more directly to the local economies. 

 

Because smaller business districts will (and do) sprout up across cities. Box Hill in Melbourne, is a large dense area 15km from the CBD, because of a large cultural concentration, high land value, a very robust public transport hub and a demand for more office space. So it's the only spot outside the central CBD to have 30 storey skyscrapers (Melbourne is  F L A T  and  N O T    D E N S E )

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Skylines - if you can run it - is phenomenal. It takes the really good stuff from SC2013 (the art style, the tiltshift/film grain thing, road upgrade tool, the rough and basic road engine), the really good stuff from CiM ( page up/down for road height, the most robust Public Transport Engine, efficient routefinding based on a good stop placement UI, individualized Cim identities and destinations with efficient parthfinding) and some of the stuff from SC4 that wasn't carried to SC2013, that perhaps should have (adjacent tiles, farms, grid-based zoning, etc). They then packaged that in an engine that is unbelievably optimized (runs at a smooth 60fps all the time. only dips to 21fps when i get down deep into my 100K population city on a 10x10km area, and then look across the whole thing). 

 

For the most part the vanilla content is superb, but the well integrated and already bursting steam workshop content that is 1-click-add-to-game level of simplicity and very high quality, and (dare i say it) a better-than-simtropolis UI and search engine. The game comes natively with asset and map editors so creating the stuff is simple also. 

 

Skylines runs the best DRM - cracked games will not keep up with the steam mod support, so if you want to enjoy four times the game at your fingertips, buy the thing.

 

It sounds like Paradox is paying me. Maybe they should... I do feel like in effect i need to work to earn the right to play the game - it's a steal for $30 on release day. easily worth the $90 i paid for SC2013 in every facet of it.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

i find it amusing that Skylines uses Cims (as opposed to Sims) as their people. not only a rip off of the late Maxis but a reference to Cities in Motion - another paradox game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...so in the light of realistic economics, the city is now a 1D line? I'm probably not understanding something here (maybe only as far as the economics engine is concerned) but that is sounding like a lot of detracted fun, especially as the competition now includes skylines.

how would the fantastic road engine work, for example, in 1D?

 

 

And the whole "everything goes to the CBD" is severely flawed in real situations. Yes a business district grows in the CBD, but that is merely a centralization of multinational office environments congregating around cultral and historical monuments, because land value and demand. Other commercial districts sprout up in local shopping strips and other high land value areas across the city. Industry will grow outside of the cbd - way outside, and is usually influenced more by policy and transport options than any such simple economic laws.

 

Large cities like LA and Sydney are really suffering because all of their jobs are IN the CBD. Government is spending tens of billions on new freeways and public transport projects to help get people from far distant suburbs into the city centre, but the government planning authorities recommend establishing more jobs on the city fringes to break up traffic flow and still have employment but have it more accessible and contribute more directly to the local economies. 

 

Because smaller business districts will (and do) sprout up across cities. Box Hill in Melbourne, is a large dense area 15km from the CBD, because of a large cultural concentration, high land value, a very robust public transport hub and a demand for more office space. So it's the only spot outside the central CBD to have 30 storey skyscrapers (Melbourne is  F L A T  and  N O T    D E N S E )

 

This april fool's post was actually born out of my frustration with simplistic urban models in literature.

Citybound will be a microsimulation with highly localized demand calculation, polycentric cities arise naturally from that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my reply to that update in 1D:

 

_____________________________________________________________________________

But that's in 2D.  A 1D render would be: .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my reply to that update in 1D:

_____________________________________________________________________________

But that's in 2D. A 1D render would be: . A cube is 3D, a square is 2D, a dot has 0 dimensions. Anyway, I look forward to seeing actual progress in the future.

--Ocram

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A line has both position and length.  That's two dimensions.  A point has only position.  What are they teaching in geometry these days???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Depending on who you ask, position is either the 0th dimension or not a dimension at all. Of course, if one knows advanced mathematical subjects, such as multivariable calculus, they will learn about fractional dimensions, which are weird shapes (such as curved/zig-zagged lines (between 1 and 2D), cubes with holes in them in a special way (a menger sponge has between 2 and 3 dimensions), or triangles with certain patterns of holes (serpinski triangle has between 1 and 2 dimensions, a higher fractional dimension than the special knot...) and other fractals). Fortunately, this game does not have to deal with fractals unless they are used in random generation (such as terrain) but that seems unlikely. Position of vertices and the surfaces used to connect them should be the only geometry important in this game. Of course, surfaces could be flat (planes) or curved (parametric surfaces). I don't recall if parametric surfaces are used in CityBound or if it uses simple polygons; for all I know buildings could be defined by combinations of 3D primitives.

--Ocram

Btw, I will complete my mathematics minor by the end of this calender year (though my double major in Biochemistry and Chemical Engineering will take 3 academic years).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Marco: Take a walk though the Erlangen program if you haven't already.  From Euclid to General Relativity in one two term course.  Very enlightening.  I took it in second year.  At the time, H.S.M Coxeter was chairman of the department.

 

I've always believed in four basic dimensions, X, Y, Z and time.  Then we get into conformal and affine geometry, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Here's my reply to that update in 1D:

 

_____________________________________________________________________________

But that's in 2D.  A 1D render would be: .

 

No, you couldn't see 1D, because it only has length, but no width (or the other way around), so it's a bit like a line with thickness 0.

 

But is this game still being developed, or is it currently dead?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Somehow I don't think AE would have gone to all that effort with his April fool, if it was off his agenda.  I do expect things will be slower now that he has a new wife and has moved to a different country.

 

I think they are at a stage now where development doesn't have much new to show with respect to the GUI.  Some time has to be spent putting things together, including the simulation(s).  Perhaps the rubber has now hit the road, and there will be little to show before he is close to a release candidate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

at the end of the day, unless we're using 3d oculus VR (WOULD BE TERRIFYING) or Anselm creates a new hardware viewing experience, any game with any game engine, will ultimately be displayed in 2d. Maybe Anselm's goal was to run the sim in 1d, but for human interaction it would have still been displayed with a 2d GUI. even with Skylines, it's a 3d world displayed in 2d. therefore 2d masterrace!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 1D thing was an April fool's gag.  As developments go towards holographic displays, don't you think 3D actualizations will be possible?

"A man's reach must exceed his grasp, or what's a heaven for".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an Account  

Sign up to join our friendly community. It's easy!  :thumb:

Register a New Account

Sign In  

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×