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Getting my residential demand positive

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I'm building a standalone city with a quite high population, at least. That's the goal. I'm having a problem with my demand. The city has a population of 149.000 citizens and 117.000 commercial jobs. It only has 2.400 industrial jobs. This job/people ratio is quite unbalanced and the strange thing is that the demand for commercial jobs is sky-high while the residential demand is negative.

 

The city is in the biggest city-tile of the region. I haven't filled it yet. The city has mid-dense and high-dense zones. I have zoned the city depending on the demand, but after my last big expansion the residential demand dropped (the demand was 24.000 for R$ and about 6.000 for R$ and R$$$), since then the demand changed quite a bit:

 

demand.jpg
 

For now I have tried to demolish abandoned buildings and build parks, schools and libraries instead. I've also rezoned residential areas with high density commercial zones. Furthermore I've lowered taxes for R$, R$$ and R$$$ with 2 percent. Lowering taxes helped a bit, I got a increase of my population of 20.000 but after that the residential demand dropped again. I haven't zoned any new residential areas. Below you can see a screenshot of my city:

cityz.jpg

 

I'm also thinking about building a second city which could influence the demand in this core city. The problem is that I don't know how this would influence the demand. Especially because the job/people ratio in my city is this unbalanced.

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It's obvious that your city city/region needs some jobs. Residential demand should come back once the jobs are there. That's just how it is in Sim City 4, jobs come before residents.

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It's obvious that your city city/region needs some jobs. Residential demand should come back once the jobs are there. That's just how it is in Sim City 4, jobs come before residents.

 

Don't you think the amount of commercial jobs is too high? That was what was holding me back, I fear that I will create a city with more commercial jobs than people which leads to abandonment. I could try to build another city with a lot of jobs/people next to this one and see how it affects the RCI-graph.

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Try building a MI city beside it to generate jobs and more goods being made for the commercial sector. Remember, just as no man is an island, no city is an island. It's hard to build a stand alone city and have it grow much.

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As it stands now, your work sectors need a total of about 300,000 Sims.  The ratio of Sims to Jobs is 2:1 as a rule of thumb.  Since your R demand has gone negative, I believe you should build a suburb on the next tile over that consists of mostly R with a few low density C spots for shopping, probably mixed in (corner stores, etc.).  Neighbour connections should be strong.  Rail, highway.

 

Build close to the border.

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You have many more jobs than your populations needs (2:1), esp if you count in the civic jobs. But the graph says that you have a slightly negative R demand and a lot of C demand (potential for yet more jobs). This IS unbalanced, of course.

 

Possible causes:

- Have you installed any demand mod?

- Have you checked for demand caps?

- Taxes: your city has a population of 149,000 sims, but the city size is 149,000+117,000+2,400=268,400. The for a city of that size must be 8.9% (?). You said you reduced your tax rates, but it may take 6 or even up to 12 game-months for the effect of tax reduction to be materialized.

- CAM: I see you have CAM installed. If I'm not mistaken, either the regional R or regional C population is double-count, if you have simply installed CAM, without merging CAM files with simcity_1.dat (install equinox's RCI Query mod, if you haven't already, and check the numbers). The result is that you need the double number of jobs, ie 1 job for 1 sim, to support any given population level. I don't know if merging CAM with simcity_1.dat (and reopening and saving city tiles) will cause the regional stats (of an already developed region) to be recalculated, but I think not. Maybe try removing some city tiles and adding them again and/or try the Obliterate City command, until you have your regional stats correctly summed up. And of course, BACKUP everything (simcity_1.dat, Plugins and your Region) before attempting this!

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Try building a MI city beside it to generate jobs and more goods being made for the commercial sector. Remember, just as no man is an island, no city is an island. It's hard to build a stand alone city and have it grow much.

 

I've been building a MI city bordering my core city. The residential demand is positive now, it's still not very high but it's getting better.

 

 

 

As it stands now, your work sectors need a total of about 300,000 Sims.  The ratio of Sims to Jobs is 2:1 as a rule of thumb.  Since your R demand has gone negative, I believe you should build a suburb on the next tile over that consists of mostly R with a few low density C spots for shopping, probably mixed in (corner stores, etc.).  Neighbour connections should be strong.  Rail, highway.

 

Build close to the border.

 

Building a residential town next to my core city is something that I will try later. I think that would be very helpful for my commercial demand and it might help against the abandonment that I'm coping with when I try to zone more commercial areas.

 

 

 

You have many more jobs than your populations needs (2:1), esp if you count in the civic jobs. But the graph says that you have a slightly negative R demand and a lot of C demand (potential for yet more jobs). This IS unbalanced, of course.

 

Possible causes:

- Have you installed any demand mod?

- Have you checked for demand caps?

- Taxes: your city has a population of 149,000 sims, but the city size is 149,000+117,000+2,400=268,400. The for a city of that size must be 8.9% (?). You said you reduced your tax rates, but it may take 6 or even up to 12 game-months for the effect of tax reduction to be materialized.

- CAM: I see you have CAM installed. If I'm not mistaken, either the regional R or regional C population is double-count, if you have simply installed CAM, without merging CAM files with simcity_1.dat (install equinox's RCI Query mod, if you haven't already, and check the numbers). The result is that you need the double number of jobs, ie 1 job for 1 sim, to support any given population level. I don't know if merging CAM with simcity_1.dat (and reopening and saving city tiles) will cause the regional stats (of an already developed region) to be recalculated, but I think not. Maybe try removing some city tiles and adding them again and/or try the Obliterate City command, until you have your regional stats correctly summed up. And of course, BACKUP everything (simcity_1.dat, Plugins and your Region) before attempting this!

 

I haven't installed any demand mod, so the demand shouldn't change drastically. I could look at the tax rate when my city size is changing. I have also installed CAM, but I haven't fixed it. I believe it is a problem with the workforce, I will fix the problem with the fix given by Ripplejet on sc4devotion, I have another question about this bug, does this bug have serious consequences for the functioning of the city or doesn't it matter that much? I am wondering whether this is the problem I'm having with my commercial demand and unbalanced RCI-graph.

 

At last I want to thank you all for your advice, I will keep you posted on further development in my region tomorrow.

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I've made a residential city bordering my core city. I've also zoned more M-I in my industrial city. The demand is getting better. If you look at the RCI-graph it's all positive. However, when you expand the graph you could see that R& is 24.000 while R&& and R&&& are negative. CS$ and CO$$$ are very high (respectively 12.000 and 24.000), the industrial demand is quite normal. I've had a growth which was quite high (give the demand I have). I've zoned a relatively small area with mid density and high density residential zones and that grew very fast. Now my population has doubled (to 300.000) but my demand isn't changing. The problem is that I want the R$, R$$ and R$$$ ratio as balanced as possible. Mainly because I want to avoid a drop in the CO$$$ demand which could lead to abandoned office-buildings etc.

 

I thought it might be a good idea to seek the solution in a bordering city just like I did with the residential city and industrial city I've created. I thought it might be a good idea to create a stand-alone city just like this one, with as goal that there could be interaction between those cities. I just don't know exactly what the consequences could be because I haven't done this in a similar situation. I also have the problem that there isn't any border nearby, I was wondering how far people are willing to travel to visit other cities and whether this position of my core city has consequences in the supporting city.

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I haven't installed any demand mod, so the demand shouldn't change drastically. I could look at the tax rate when my city size is changing. I have also installed CAM, but I haven't fixed it. I believe it is a problem with the workforce, I will fix the problem with the fix given by Ripplejet on sc4devotion, I have another question about this bug, does this bug have serious consequences for the functioning of the city or doesn't it matter that much? I am wondering whether this is the problem I'm having with my commercial demand and unbalanced RCI-graph.

 

Well, the imbalance is apparent, isn't it? Merging CAM into simcity_1.dat won't fix the double-count stats unfortunately, as far as I can remember (in an existing region), it will only cause any NEW change (in population, jobs etc) to be added to the regional stats correctly. But the difference that has already been recorded will remain.

 

I have an idea:

- First off, backup everything (your simcity installation - well, basically simcity_1.dat only), your plugins and your region (the whole folder). Don't tell me that I ddin't warn you then!

- Install Equinox's RCI Query Mod. This is a mod that replaces the R, C and I query dialogs with much more informative (and bigger) ones, displaying the regional (total) R, C and I population, not just the building you are querying. This is a nice and useful mod, which you will rather want to keep. Otherwise install Census Repository from SC4D (or my Chamber of Commerce and Industry) - they display a big query reporting all regional stats.

- So now you should know what the regional stats are. As you have only 2 or 3 developed cities, it should be easy to add the numbers in each city and check if the regional stats are sumed up correctly.

- If not, try Deleting all developed city tiles (from the Region Menu), or Obliterating each developed city tile (from the God Mode Menu). Then check again, if regional stats have all been reset to zero.

- If so, apply the patch (mergre CAM into simcity_1.dat) and play a new (test) region (not yours) to see if regional stats are now OK.

- Switch to your own region, try Importing the city tiles (from the Region Menu), and check if regional stats are now OK (if so, R demand should be high up, and C demand very negative, as you have an underdeveloped R sector and overdeveloped C one - better start another city and grow much R there, add a lot of educational facilites, and run it for several years, so as C demand rises again, if you want to avoid C abandonment).

 

Not sure if this will work (just a thought), but I hope you got the idea: delete the cities keeping the installation as is, then apply the fix and add them back. If this works, it can become the standard procedure to repair regional stats.

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I haven't installed any demand mod, so the demand shouldn't change drastically. I could look at the tax rate when my city size is changing. I have also installed CAM, but I haven't fixed it. I believe it is a problem with the workforce, I will fix the problem with the fix given by Ripplejet on sc4devotion, I have another question about this bug, does this bug have serious consequences for the functioning of the city or doesn't it matter that much? I am wondering whether this is the problem I'm having with my commercial demand and unbalanced RCI-graph.

 

Well, the imbalance is apparent, isn't it? Merging CAM into simcity_1.dat won't fix the double-count stats unfortunately, as far as I can remember (in an existing region), it will only cause any NEW change (in population, jobs etc) to be added to the regional stats correctly. But the difference that has already been recorded will remain.

 

I have an idea:

- First off, backup everything (your simcity installation - well, basically simcity_1.dat only), your plugins and your region (the whole folder). Don't tell me that I ddin't warn you then!

- Install Equinox's RCI Query Mod. This is a mod that replaces the R, C and I query dialogs with much more informative (and bigger) ones, displaying the regional (total) R, C and I population, not just the building you are querying. This is a nice and useful mod, which you will rather want to keep. Otherwise install Census Repository from SC4D (or my Chamber of Commerce and Industry) - they display a big query reporting all regional stats.

- So now you should know what the regional stats are. As you have only 2 or 3 developed cities, it should be easy to add the numbers in each city and check if the regional stats are sumed up correctly.

- If not, try Deleting all developed city tiles (from the Region Menu), or Obliterating each developed city tile (from the God Mode Menu). Then check again, if regional stats have all been reset to zero.

- If so, apply the patch (mergre CAM into simcity_1.dat) and play a new (test) region (not yours) to see if regional stats are now OK.

- Switch to your own region, try Importing the city tiles (from the Region Menu), and check if regional stats are now OK (if so, R demand should be high up, and C demand very negative, as you have an underdeveloped R sector and overdeveloped C one - better start another city and grow much R there, add a lot of educational facilites, and run it for several years, so as C demand rises again, if you want to avoid C abandonment).

 

Not sure if this will work (just a thought), but I hope you got the idea: delete the cities keeping the installation as is, then apply the fix and add them back. If this works, it can become the standard procedure to repair regional stats.

 

I've installed the mod and deleted my cities afterwards I've put it back. It worked! My demand is getting mucht better. R$ became less positive (about 18.000) and all the other categories become positive. I would say this works quite well. Thanks!

 

 

 

I am curious as to how you zone M-I?

 

I zone mid density industrial zones and make them desirable for manufacturing industry. In the beginning the demand of every category is positive, I pause the game and zone everything I want, including a water source (since the absence of water attracts I-D) and infrastructure, I also raise taxes for I-D. Then I zone some residential areas and a bit low density commercial zones. After I press play manufacturing buildings will be developed. So I don't zone I-M specifically with a button or anything like that but the result is the same. Only I-M will be developed.

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Yeah I use similar tactics to inspire growth of certain types.  I usually try to stay away from taxes though, once you start messing around with taxes it seems there is no end to it.

 I love inspiring through water and parks.  If I want manufacturing industry to grow, I will create a dirty industry spot by zoning industrial with no water or parks, then once that grows I will zone new industry right next to it, and give the new industry water, it is highly likely that manufacturing industry will grow there as it can grow next to dirty industry, the water is just there to help it grow, if manufacturing does not grow here, I will bulldoze what has grown there and add parks around the area, if the water didn't do it, the parks will.

 

If i cannot get the dirty industry to grow in the spot I want it to due to demand being too low, I will zone some low density residential with no water, no schools, no police, and no hospital, this usually results in low wealth residential, this will create demand for dirty industry.

 

I do not see it so much as being a matter of zoning one type or another, I just need to create demand and desirability, then once that is done I just need to give them a place to do their thing.

 

If none of the above works at all, I may reach into my download archive and pull out a ploppable, this is not my preferred method of finding solutions, it feels like cheating to me, so I will usually try to avoid that if at all possible.  I usually save ploppables for suburban situations where I want to create a shopping district and then I just use Simgoober's commercial ploppables and a couple of Kevdan's ploppables, and the SFBT Gas stations.  Doing this can create ultra realistic looking commercial shopping areas.

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Hey, one more thing, in a situation like the one in your screenshots in the original post, what I would do is I would destroy about 1/3 of your commercial, pick a spot you don't particularly like , rezone the rest at high density and place like 50 or more parks(small park) in the middle of it all all scattered about, 2 here, 3 there four over there and such, not that center island, but between the buildings. and that spot that you bulldozed, I would zone for high density industry in that now vacant spot, and place parks around that too, to make high tech grow there and just destroy anything that grows that you don't want and place more parks until you do get what you want.

 

Basically, what you did was knocked down a bunch of your commercial by deleting 1/3 of it, that added to your demand for commerical, while at the same time you placed parks around your commercial areas that are still standing creating desireability, causing your commercial area to grow upwards instead of outwards.  See?

 

Then due to the nature of the relationship between commercial and industrial(specifically high tech) that 1/3 commercial area you destroyed left behind an area of high desireability for high-tech industry.  See?

 

Do those two things there and then zone some residential, if it does not grow instantly, you will grow into it as time goes, the taller your commercial gets the more people your city will demand.  You might not see the demand bars grow for residential though, especially if your buildings just keep getting taller(the growing height of the buildings would be absorbing the demand).  Your population should continue to grow though even if your demand doesn't show it in this case.

 

Don't forget, at some point you are going to NEED more poor people as a workforce.  This will cause you to create a not so pretty spot on your map for them, suburbs.

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I get what I want to grow by manipulating taxes all the time. I don't want DI to grow? No problem I just tax it to the max. I want a DI in my ghetto? No prob, just tax MI and HTI to the max, problem solved. Granted I try not to allow each industry to grow in the same town ( with the exception of ag ). However I will let MI and HTI to grow sometimes together but not often. I also love to make just industrial cities with maybe a small C area. I work one one city do when demand dips below I. The negative I leave it to wprk on another city!!!

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My demand is more balanced now, the residential demand is fluctuating a lot though. I guess that's mainly because of the growth my city made when the R$ demand was very high. The total population is 325.000 and the poor population is about 200.000 most of them are situated in the neighborhood showed in the snapshot below. However, when the demand of R$$ and R$$$ buildings of that category will rise in this neighborhood. So there is some change going on.

 

 

70192368.png
 
I think my method is somewhere in between the method of Metalpuritan and Bdub01. I raise taxes for zones I don't want and lower taxes for zones I want more (if necessary, if not I let it be), I also try to raise the desirability of an area if I want to attract higher incomes.

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