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Ghachii

Advanced Safety/Utility buildings are too expensive!

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Hi all!

 

I keep having the same problem over and over again, and I'm just wondering if anyone else has noticed it or found a workaround. Basically, whenever I get to a population of 100,000 the city pretty much needs all of the advanced safety/utility buildings with various upgrades in order to keep the little sims happy. BUT, the running costs of these buildings leave me with a pretty big deficit. I try increasing taxes to cover the costs, but this causes people to leave my city in droves.

 

I'm now in an infuriating cycle of switching off buildings to save money, building up my funds, cutting taxes, switching the buildings back on again, losing money, raising taxes, switching the buildings off, etc, etc, etc. My population fluctuates wildly between 50,000 and 100,000. It's like 50% of the population becomes outraged and leaves if I increase taxes by more than 1 percentage point.

 

Essentially, the sims are not prepared to cover the cost of the services they're demanding. In theory I could subsidize these services with money from trade, but with a population of 100,000 the traffic is so bad (and the AI so unreliable) that my production chain can't be relied upon.

 

Anyone else facing similar problems?

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I have noticed this too, however the costs can be somewhat mitigated by city specialisation. Your hourly income will be in the red but with the right exports your monthly income will still be positive. Of course, if you don't want to your city to specialise in anything (which is a perfectly reasonable way to play), then these advanced public services are unfortunately more-or-less unsustainable. I think the hourly costs of such services need to be tweaked in an upcoming patch. They certainly don't seem to be optimal.

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I have noticed this too, however the costs can be somewhat mitigated by city specialisation. Your hourly income will be in the red but with the right exports your monthly income will still be positive. Of course, if you don't want to your city to specialise in anything (which is a perfectly reasonable way to play), then these advanced public services are unfortunately more-or-less unsustainable. I think the hourly costs of such services need to be tweaked in an upcoming patch. They certainly don't seem to be optimal.

 

My current city specializes in electronics and tourism. I have 2 trade depots clogged up with processors that only occasionally get sold, and tourism only seems to generate income if you host events, which are dependent on fickle tourists from neighboring cities. Both seem to be quite badly affected by traffic.

 

I agree that the hourly cost of advanced services needs to be tweaked. But with so many other things that need to be fixed, I have to wonder how long we'll be waiting for this.

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if possible, put the trade depots near to the highway and all the industry near to trade depots ( shorter and faster to deliver). I also made the road like a snake, with no damn intersections so there was no traffic jams  as well :D . so, with 5 processors  and 2 tv plants fully upgraded, I had around 3 millions profit daily. from which I paid the imports for plastic and alloys ( part of being imported) and all the safety department of the city. then I got bored :( 

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Traffic is your problem. The water/sewage buildings are fine, they're actually a better value per hour than the first ones. And I've run a city of 160k population with a single police and fire station, not even fully upgraded. Two medical ones but just for the extra treatment rooms since I ignored all the ground pollution from my industry. I agree that the advanced safety buildings are way too expensive hourly, but your real problem is traffic.

 

Edit: education helps too. More education is less fires, less injuries, and less criminals I think.

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Hi all!

 

I keep having the same problem over and over again, and I'm just wondering if anyone else has noticed it or found a workaround. Basically, whenever I get to a population of 100,000 the city pretty much needs all of the advanced safety/utility buildings with various upgrades in order to keep the little sims happy. BUT, the running costs of these buildings leave me with a pretty big deficit. I try increasing taxes to cover the costs, but this causes people to leave my city in droves.

 

I'm now in an infuriating cycle of switching off buildings to save money, building up my funds, cutting taxes, switching the buildings back on again, losing money, raising taxes, switching the buildings off, etc, etc, etc. My population fluctuates wildly between 50,000 and 100,000. It's like 50% of the population becomes outraged and leaves if I increase taxes by more than 1 percentage point.

 

Essentially, the sims are not prepared to cover the cost of the services they're demanding. In theory I could subsidize these services with money from trade, but with a population of 100,000 the traffic is so bad (and the AI so unreliable) that my production chain can't be relied upon.

 

Anyone else facing similar problems?

 

This post was deleted.--hym

Likewise deleted because it referenced deleted material.--hym

 

 

As for services though.. they seem pretty unnecessary to me. As long as you have reasonable education, fires, crime, and medical issues are pretty minimal. That is unless you have dirty industry..

 

I find the game to be extremely imbalanced in favor of medium wealth residents & HT industry. There are no savings to be made by having low wealth sims & dirty industry.. unless I'm doing it wrong?

 

I mean, I've got a high wealth city [like 50$$$/30$$/20$ split] with no local industry and its profitable without specialization..

 

Doing the same for a low wealth city and/or with dirty industry is nearly impossible without tons of health issues, crime, fires...

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Hi all!

 

I keep having the same problem over and over again, and I'm just wondering if anyone else has noticed it or found a workaround. Basically, whenever I get to a population of 100,000 the city pretty much needs all of the advanced safety/utility buildings with various upgrades in order to keep the little sims happy. BUT, the running costs of these buildings leave me with a pretty big deficit. I try increasing taxes to cover the costs, but this causes people to leave my city in droves.

 

I'm now in an infuriating cycle of switching off buildings to save money, building up my funds, cutting taxes, switching the buildings back on again, losing money, raising taxes, switching the buildings off, etc, etc, etc. My population fluctuates wildly between 50,000 and 100,000. It's like 50% of the population becomes outraged and leaves if I increase taxes by more than 1 percentage point.

 

Essentially, the sims are not prepared to cover the cost of the services they're demanding. In theory I could subsidize these services with money from trade, but with a population of 100,000 the traffic is so bad (and the AI so unreliable) that my production chain can't be relied upon.

 

Anyone else facing similar problems?

 

Deleting this too.--hym

And this.--hym

 

 

 

As for services though.. they seem pretty unnecessary to me. As long as you have reasonable education, fires, crime, and medical issues are pretty minimal. That is unless you have dirty industry..

 

I find the game to be extremely imbalanced in favor of medium wealth residents & HT industry. There are no savings to be made by having low wealth sims & dirty industry.. unless I'm doing it wrong?

 

I mean, I've got a high wealth city [like 50$$$/30$$/20$ split] with no local industry and its profitable without specialization..

 

Doing the same for a low wealth city and/or with dirty industry is nearly impossible without tons of health issues, crime, fires...

I find the tax system infuriating and I can see what you mean about the various wealth taxes. Even if I set high wealth to half the regular rates, I don't get any statistically significant increase in high wealth population, but fiddle with the medium wealth R and I either get a 50% pop rise in a day or two or more abandoned buildings than I can handle.

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I wish you could do clever things like in real life. Many countries offer services for free and just have higher tax rates. So something like free health care/education/transit in exchange for higher taxes could make things interesting. As in stands, once you put taxes at 12% or higher, everyone eventually leaves.

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I partially agree. I found that if I just fill all the space with RCI and no specialization, with minimal fire/health/police and no school no park, my population stays around 30k but I get like 11k$ per hour. However, when I put in education/ transporation/ school/ parks, I get around 70k pop with 7k$ per hour. Now the nightmare occurs when I start getting high density buildings: the requirement for power/water/sewage are so high that I can get 150k pop but my income is 0$. It's very frustrating that the best way to get money is to have low pop/boring city.

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Just fyi, negative and positive modifiers for taxes are specific to wealth levels and divided into tiers. The most you can raise your taxes without incurring a negative happiness modifier is 12% for low-wealth, 11% for medium-wealth, and 10% for high wealth. The prima guide has specifics for each wealth class and tier:

 

http://imgur.com/a/2WzBT

 

(second image in the album)

 

And, like other posters have said, you don't actually need as many services as your advisors seem to think. A small fire station with one extra garage is usually enough for 150K, for instance. Same with police -- at least once your city is educated.

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And, like other posters have said, you don't actually need as many services as your advisors seem to think. A small fire station with one extra garage is usually enough for 150K, for instance. Same with police -- at least once your city is educated.

I beg to differ.

 

My city had a population near 160k and my police station maxed out.

The sims were still complaining about crime and abandoning buildings left and right.

Also my fire station had 5 trucks and my city was have more fires that it could cope with.

I didn't have enough money to build big fire station.

 

My city specialize in education by being a University city.

 

My population started to tank because I couldn't provide the services to extent the sims demanded.

My city when from 8k+ an hour to between 1k to -8k.

 

I think it is a glitch in the game.

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I actually found this to be very related.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aox0IWxZalS2dGN0N2J6aUVFRVJwU21DeDVhbnBVdHc#gid=4
and

Basically it says that by upgrading from medium density to high density R, you gain workforce of 10 times, but your population gain is 100 times. This means that you get 10 times more tax but need 100 times more utility (power/water/sewage/etc). It is unsure if this is bug or intended. Anyway, what I am doing now is just never upgrading to high density road because cities fall apart when you start getting high density RCI



And, like other posters have said, you don't actually need as many services as your advisors seem to think. A small fire station with one extra garage is usually enough for 150K, for instance. Same with police -- at least once your city is educated.

I beg to differ.

 

My city had a population near 160k and my police station maxed out.

The sims were still complaining about crime and abandoning buildings left and right.

Also my fire station had 5 trucks and my city was have more fires that it could cope with.

I didn't have enough money to build big fire station.

 

My city specialize in education by being a University city.

 

My population started to tank because I couldn't provide the services to extent the sims demanded.

My city when from 8k+ an hour to between 1k to -8k.

 

I think it is a glitch in the game.

I found that building universities actually pretty much kills your city because the industry will go high tech very quickly, while your sim's education's level slowly goes up. As a result, the high tech industry will go abandoned because there's no skilled workers, and your residents will go abandoned because there's no low tech job for them to do.

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Residential abandonment for me went:

  1. Too much crime
  2. Traffic issues
  3. Fire safety
  4. Germs
  5. Jobs

Commercial went like this for me:

  1. Too much crime
  2. Fire safety
  3. Not enough shoppers
  4. Traffic
  5. Tourists

Industrial:

 

  • not enough places to ship too
  • Too much crime
  • Fire safety
  • health
  • traffic

These issues brought down all my cities, only two had universities.

 

*I haven't had the time to play in over two weeks.

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by the time i got to my 5th city i realised that its generally better to have 3 small police stations spread across that map rather than 1 large one, its slightly cheaper and at the same time u avoid many of the problems caused by traffic. you do not really gain anything from having the precinct apart from detectives at the cost of limited range and higher cost.

 

now ill plop 2-3 small police stations with a sign + flag + 1 extra car (4 cars)... so far this has been working rather well for populations of around 300k with mid education (just make sure you plop them before crime becomes an issue or you will need to add jail cells, cells affect happiness in a bad way, where as no cells = + happiness or value, not sure exactly which it is lol. and lower cost.

 

what i find weird is the fact that my educated city requires so many police, presinct or not and just 1 small fire department with only ONE fire truck that gets to 99% of fires. i really thought education would affect crime more than fires o.O my police budget is massive compare to my nearly invisable fire budget... my fire station has the response time addon and thats it, no extra trucks nothing.... who ever works there is a ledgend!

 

 

 

Oh btw, the heli pad is pointless i had 3 at one point. they seem to only keep track of a criminal untill a car can arrest them, so the only bonus i see to the large station is the detectives, tbh i dint notice an impact of crime from using them either. really give multiple small stations a try instead unless your at 500k pop i cant imagine room being to valuable (yet to get over 350k)


  Edited by Srafty

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what works best for me and generates millions is electronics.. set the supply chain close to gether from recycling plant to processors to tv production to trade depot.. if you have a river use a Freight Shipping Warehouse with a cargo ship dock to massivly export the goods..(no traffic issues)

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Have the same issue with balencing income/paying for services. The trouble is yes you can make money with city specilisation but I think a major flaw in this system is that income generated by this is not reflected in your main city budget. For example You have your budget which shows income/costs from taxes and services. I find it frustrating that income from selling/manufacturing ore, metal etc is not reflected in this budget but shown in the bonds section only, it makes it hard to track how well you can safely ofset city running costs with production.

 

Another thing that irritates me is why don't you gain any money from public transport? It shows as a cost which is fair enough, but If I had to catch a bus/train in real life I would have to pay fares it wouldn't be free! So why don't you get anyincome from this?

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I have to say that once my cities get up and running, I have no problems with any of the servies.  I have a city with 160k population that has large medical, fire and police stations with both water pumps and sewage treatments. Even with those, all of them have at least two upgrades, im still making money each hour (500-2000) without any specialisation.  The main problem I've found is the amount of space having those 5 take up.  I've tried using other cities, but they never seem to do much for me...

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Have the same issue with balencing income/paying for services. The trouble is yes you can make money with city specilisation but I think a major flaw in this system is that income generated by this is not reflected in your main city budget.

 

I totally agree, this is a real pain. It's not like it can even be patched since your hourly income is a projection of what will happen in the future, and income from specialization is variable dependent on the little delivery trucks, so can't be predicted. The curse of the glassbox engine strikes again.

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2 buildings of each of the Small Police/Fire/Medical services, are enough to cover a city of 160k. 
By adding a College and try to educate all houses, it will limit your need to Police, Fire & Medical also. (less accidents). 
 
Power. The power need you either go clean, where you need big mass on power. Or dirty, where Coal powerplant is what you need, because it has one of the best margins. Even if you drill oil, is more efficient to sell the oil and buy coal. Building an oil Power Plant will eat your profits, because it burns 100% of the generated income of an oilfield. 
 
While a fully upgraded Coal plant eats 1/24 of a Coal mining facility. So you can have 2 fully geared Coal power plants, and support 2 1/2 cities. One that will have all the industry, and the other 2 all the workers. 
 
 
Water & Sewage the same. You pay a small fee, you ship everything to your first big city, and you have the rest of the cities, clean to provide the workers. 
 
When you build your surrounding cities, go back to your first city and rebuild it. By that time, you will have few gazillion in the region to have 20-30k population in the industrial city, a great road & supply network also. 
 
HINT! 
There are few maps around with more than one road connection to the region. These should be used as your industrial cities. Or utilise rails & ferries also. 

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Ghachii, on 24 Mar 2013 - 04:14, said:

Hi all!

I keep having the same problem over and over again, and I'm just wondering if anyone else has noticed it or found a workaround. Basically, whenever I get to a population of 100,000 the city pretty much needs all of the advanced safety/utility buildings with various upgrades in order to keep the little sims happy. BUT, the running costs of these buildings leave me with a pretty big deficit. I try increasing taxes to cover the costs, but this causes people to leave my city in droves.

I'm now in an infuriating cycle of switching off buildings to save money, building up my funds, cutting taxes, switching the buildings back on again, losing money, raising taxes, switching the buildings off, etc, etc, etc. My population fluctuates wildly between 50,000 and 100,000. It's like 50% of the population becomes outraged and leaves if I increase taxes by more than 1 percentage point.

Essentially, the sims are not prepared to cover the cost of the services they're demanding. In theory I could subsidize these services with money from trade, but with a population of 100,000 the traffic is so bad (and the AI so unreliable) that my production chain can't be relied upon.

Anyone else facing similar problems?

I will agree that having fully upgraded everything for all your services is incredibly expensive. There are several things that can be done.

As others have mentioned, when you specialize in your city, you can run huge hourly deficits and still make lots of money each day. This allows you to fully upgrade services. Usually this takes awhile to build up, more advanced cities.

You shouldn't ever be in your situation on cutting off power to various building to save money etc (there are exceptions). Having fully upgraded services though kills the budget. So stop doint that. Stop being so nice to your sims. Seriously. If you get a few pop-ups now and then about crime, health or whatever, just don't put down more services, look at the data layers and truely see if its needed. Usually I just ignore these pop-ups until the city indicator goes red. You don't have to save each sim. So what if a few die to health reasons, or crime. Whatever! More will move in. (I know, I'm a terrible person!) :kitty: The key to sims being happy is low taxes. I never raise mine.

So usually with all these services, don't overkill it. Have just enough, and I mean barely just enough.

Fire! First, don't have dumb sims. Dumb sims cause problems. Have a bit of education to reduce fires, accidents etc. Keep with the small fire hall until you have hazmat fires. Even then, if you have another city who has upgraded to full fire station, have them spare a hazmat fire truck. If not, so what if you get a hazmat fire, let it burn. Demo the building and it will come back. As long as the city isn't burning, keep it to a minimum. My city of 230K has fire hall with two fire trucks, though the people are quite educated whichs helps reduce fires.

Police. There are too many criminals! Umm, live with it. As long as you dont' have mass murderers running around and your not releasing criminals, you're fine with a small police station. Have it upgraded for what you need. Don't release criminals. But seriously, if you're getting pop-ups on too much crime and in your data layer you have most of the criminals locked up, good enough. This isn't a perfect world.

Health. Cough Cough. I built up a mining town and there were flashing sick symbols everywhere. Thats nice. Get back to work! Looking at the health layer, the city looked like a war zone. The clinic was nearly maxed out, but I didn't upgrade to the hosital. A few sims were dying, so what. The city still operated fine while I built up the metals smelter, multiple electronics processor factories, trade HQ, ports etc etc. Once I got some serious cash flow, then I built a fully upgraded hospital. Feel better now?

See what I'm getting at here. Live with the smaller utilites until absolutely needed. Sometimes you need to upgrade to the second tier, but pick and choose which one needs it. When you city gets large enough, perhaps specializes in something to bringing in serious cash, then I make sure everything is tier two.

Edit: Oh, totally forget to mention, that you can plop down a second smal police/fire/clinic to suppliment your first one instead of the tier two building. This logic applies to other city services too.   Oh, and don't max out your garbage trucks, buses, etc. Looks at the data layers to see how things are running in each area, have just enough trucks, buses etc.   Each one of these things costs money.

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Have the same issue with balencing income/paying for services. The trouble is yes you can make money with city specilisation but I think a major flaw in this system is that income generated by this is not reflected in your main city budget.

 

I totally agree, this is a real pain. It's not like it can even be patched since your hourly income is a projection of what will happen in the future, and income from specialization is variable dependent on the little delivery trucks, so can't be predicted. The curse of the glassbox engine strikes again.

Click on the money and it will open up the finance menu, you can see the hourly and transactions and the sum of them. I know it's not predictive but at least it tells you how you did the previous day.

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If you are having trouble paying for city services it's because of one or more of the following reasons.

 

You are not making enough money and need to create a funding source.

You have to many high priced services that you don't need.

You have traffic issues that are preventing your city services from functioning.

Your city population is not balanced.

 

If you balance your city, have a good source of income, and little traffic, city services are easy to pay for.

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Trouble is its quite hard to deal with traffic in this game I have tons of public transport but in comming commuters from other cities cause gridlock, now I have scaled back my police/fire/hospitol... the people will just have to suffer lol.

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from what i have found if you play in a style that keeps your city at 88%+ happiness while keeping an eye on your traffic to ensure its none existent (without mass transit). Then you will have a very very very small income, and your city will take AGES to build. but the plus side is that keeping an eye on everything instead of just plopping away, teaches you much about how things work and if you restrain from letting the city run its self whiel you sleep it results in a perfectly runnnig  "near" self sustaining city..

 

i am just about to start my 10th city, most of my citys get to 150-300k  before i decide i want to try something different, thus restart. To this point i have not once required an advanced safety building (i used them in the first 3 maps like a mad man). however using the hospital for the wellness center is worth while and i still tend to use it on occasion, once again however, since i have been planting trees, concentrating around the edge of map and over ground pollution but also over the entire map, even the wellness center is seeming like it has no use.

 

and umm, hazmat, lol. maybe if u have alot of industrial. i choose to ignore hazmat since buildings always rebuild at the exact same density and wealth, who cares if 1-2 factorys are lost once in a blue moon (maybe if your going for 95% happiness), there only gone for a few moments. ill admit i nearly got one just to shut up the fire guy complaining at me!

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Trouble is its quite hard to deal with traffic in this game I have tons of public transport but in comming commuters from other cities cause gridlock, now I have scaled back my police/fire/hospitol... the people will just have to suffer lol.

 

Traffic in most cases is caused by an unbalanced population.  Check your population stats and make sure you have no unemployed citizens and very few extra jobs for each wealth level. That will stop the incoming population from other cities.  If your city is handling all your jobs and you have no unemployed then there is no reason for them to come to your city except for tourists.  Make sure you have a couple of train stations in your heavy retail spots if you have lots of tourists entering by car.  You can also drop a regional bus terminal next to your tourists attractions to give them a way to come in via bus.

 

I have almost no traffic issues in any of my cities now as I learned how to balance them so other cities don't kill me with traffic.

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