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Skittilybop

High Wealth Industry Problems

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I'm really getting to the point where I think this game is just broken, but here's the set of problems I'm having:

 

I had a good self sufficient city going until around 40k pop. I kind of focused on education and build a University. Soon property values were through the roof and all my industrial buildings became High Tech and started making craploads of money. Again 40k pop, high density industrial high wealth jobs with no shortage of workers,

 

Fast forward a couple weeks. My city explodes in population and is now around 80k population. Suddenly my industrial sector is dead! Again, population doubles, and suddenly there are not enough workers.

 

Please note: Traffic does not seem to be a problem.

 

-There is constantly a shortage of workers even though the number of job openings has not increased. 

-The industrial buildings construct, close due to lack of workers, get abandoned, then repeat. They never come back as lower density, lower tech, they just fill in over and over

-They also complain of "nowhere to ship freight" even though they are next to a trade depot and the business next door says fright is selling well.

-My city is absolutely choked with "shoppers" walking around the industry area. WTF?

 

So I have a few questions: 

-How do these high tech industry employees get to work? It's not public transport, do they just drive? They never had trouble before the population explosion, so what happened now?

-If my city mainly has middle wealth workforce, then why to high wealth jobs repeatedly spawn?

-What is freight, and where the hell does it need to go?

 

Seriously, did they like, play this a little before they released it? It was so exiting to build this first city and now it's just a pile of junk that doesn't work.



Oh and by the way. It just makes money no matter what. Nobody works, none of the businesses are doing well. My city doesn't make anything.

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All industry, regardless of wealth, mostly requires low wealth workers. A high wealth high industry building require like 90% high educated low wealth workers and then like 10% high wealth/medium wealth workers. Much like in the real world with pretty much every high tech industry, the vast majority of the required workforce is low wealth. Are you supplying enough low wealth workers? Do you have unemployed people in your city? Because if you don't have low wealth unemployed people in your city, you aren't supplying enough workers.

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All industry requires low wealth workers but it’s not “90%” for High Tech Industry. If I remember correctly (I don’t have my documents on hand so someone might correct my numbers) but a High Tech/High Density industrial building needs 50 Low wealth 150 Medium Wealth and 50 High Wealth.

 

 Your running into the same problem I ran into with my high tech industry, and one of my biggest problems with the game really. Industrial zones are so hard to employ in this game because how workers work.

 

The first thing you need to remember is that the actual number of people in your city is only 10~11% of what your “Population” is. My city was over 50K but I “Actually” had only 5,000 ish workers.

 

The second thing you need to remember is that support buildings need SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many freaking jobs. I had a city with good education and a nuclear power plant and when I looked at the numbers just my educational institutions and power needed almost 2,000 jobs to function! That’s not even including all the other utilities, the commercial zones.

 

A lot of industrial cities will follow the same pattern. Build some residential, build some industrial. Oh look the residents are going to work at the industrial buildings how cute. The problem though is that after your initial building you’re going to want to build more support buildings to get happy, educated and healthy workers, but they will require workers to make THEM function at a rate faster than your residential areas will expand. So while you’re building educational institutions, better utilities, maybe some of the specialization builds, and the commercial buildings to stop your residents from bitching, they’re taking away your eligible workers that would go to your industrial zones.

 

 After a few hours your industrial zones that were previously content, are now frantically complaining about no workers. And Since you were probably a good little boy and zoned your industrial zones AWAY from your residential zones, you’re now getting screwed by the agent “Feature” that makes sims mearly go to the closest available job. Meaning your industrial zones that were zones out of the way to avoid pollution will probably be last on the list for an “Agent” to go work at.

 

 And good luck relying on your region for support. The commuting is so finiky that one day 1000 commuters might come in, the next day that might drop to 200 for no reason. And god help you if traffic starts getting backed up at the beginning of the zone….

 

Oh and freight just sucks for consistency. I’ve seen them $%&^! about it even when they’re right beside an empty trade depot. The only thing I’ve heard works is unlocking the “Big” trade depot, apparently that’s more consistent in satisfaction.  

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I'm really getting to the point where I think this game is just broken,

 

 

Fact: The game isn't broken, it's just that they didn't take the time the game needed to finish it properly before putting it on the market, Somehow typical for North-American Companies.  Everything is made to last and work only partially, so the consumer comes back soon for the repairs and "add-ons" that solve the problems. It's a kind of helping the economy being stable.

 

I remember the good old times, when things were made to last as long as possible or for the lifetime. Good luck with your problem. ;)

 

mrb

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I'm really getting to the point where I think this game is just broken, but here's the set of problems I'm having:

 

I had a good self sufficient city going until around 40k pop. I kind of focused on education and build a University. Soon property values were through the roof and all my industrial buildings became High Tech and started making craploads of money. Again 40k pop, high density industrial high wealth jobs with no shortage of workers,

 

Fast forward a couple weeks. My city explodes in population and is now around 80k population. Suddenly my industrial sector is dead! Again, population doubles, and suddenly there are not enough workers.

 

Please note: Traffic does not seem to be a problem.

 

-There is constantly a shortage of workers even though the number of job openings has not increased. 

-The industrial buildings construct, close due to lack of workers, get abandoned, then repeat. They never come back as lower density, lower tech, they just fill in over and over

-They also complain of "nowhere to ship freight" even though they are next to a trade depot and the business next door says fright is selling well.

-My city is absolutely choked with "shoppers" walking around the industry area. WTF?

 

So I have a few questions: 

-How do these high tech industry employees get to work? It's not public transport, do they just drive? They never had trouble before the population explosion, so what happened now?

-If my city mainly has middle wealth workforce, then why to high wealth jobs repeatedly spawn?

-What is freight, and where the hell does it need to go?

 

Seriously, did they like, play this a little before they released it? It was so exiting to build this first city and now it's just a pile of junk that doesn't work.

Oh and by the way. It just makes money no matter what. Nobody works, none of the businesses are doing well. My city doesn't make anything.

I have the same issues.  Upon running into this worker shortage problem my immediate reaction was to go into another city and zone residential like crazy.  My thought was they would head to the community college and university in my other city to get educated, and then fill in those high tech position vacancies in my industrial area.  

 

This did NOT work.  The idiots in the new city, despite having a multitude of public transportation options, refused to leave the city to get educated (or find work).  They then all ran out of money, leaving a bunch of vacant buildings that eventually resulted in a ridiculous amount of fires.  To make matters worse, although I designated fire trucks from other cities to support this new "residential town", they never arrived and my city proceeded to burn to the ground. 

 

All this is a product of the regional play being an absolute pile of dog %#&*.  It does not work.  I have the PRIMA strategy guide, and every suggestion in the book has not worked. 

 

I have been sending supplies to my International Airport great work for about 40 gaming hours, from various cities, and the amount of supplies at the great works fluctuates continuously.  At one point, Metal and Alloy were full, now they show only about 20% filled. 

 

Personally, I am furious with this game.  I have been waiting years for this new release and it turns out to be an absolute %&*$ disaster. 

 

Oh by the way, your question about frieght...it goes nowhere.  It doesn't not supply your commercial buildings, it is just a hoax.  You can stop zoning industrial now.

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I'm really getting to the point where I think this game is just broken, but here's the set of problems I'm having:

 

I had a good self sufficient city going until around 40k pop. I kind of focused on education and build a University. Soon property values were through the roof and all my industrial buildings became High Tech and started making craploads of money. Again 40k pop, high density industrial high wealth jobs with no shortage of workers,

 

Fast forward a couple weeks. My city explodes in population and is now around 80k population. Suddenly my industrial sector is dead! Again, population doubles, and suddenly there are not enough workers.

 

Please note: Traffic does not seem to be a problem.

 

-There is constantly a shortage of workers even though the number of job openings has not increased. 

-The industrial buildings construct, close due to lack of workers, get abandoned, then repeat. They never come back as lower density, lower tech, they just fill in over and over

-They also complain of "nowhere to ship freight" even though they are next to a trade depot and the business next door says fright is selling well.

-My city is absolutely choked with "shoppers" walking around the industry area. WTF?

 

So I have a few questions: 

-How do these high tech industry employees get to work? It's not public transport, do they just drive? They never had trouble before the population explosion, so what happened now?

-If my city mainly has middle wealth workforce, then why to high wealth jobs repeatedly spawn?

-What is freight, and where the hell does it need to go?

 

Seriously, did they like, play this a little before they released it? It was so exiting to build this first city and now it's just a pile of junk that doesn't work.

Oh and by the way. It just makes money no matter what. Nobody works, none of the businesses are doing well. My city doesn't make anything.

 

 

Well, with the phantom pop/inflated population numbers, they don't grow linearly (I wish I could find the reddit post that someone graphed)  But basically after 50,000 the population # grows faster than the eligible worker population.  That said, you're probably also experiencing a significant increase in density.  Here's a post regarding jobs/shoppers etc. over on the EA forums.  You'll see that a mid-tech medium-density industry building provides jobs as such:

 

  • 90$ / 40$$ / 12$$$

 

A mid-tech high density industrial building however, provides the following:

  • 800$ / 400$$ / 130$$$

 

A pretty vast difference.  So if you were first sitting on high density residential and then all of a sudden your industry caught up, you're resulting situation is a huge number of unfilled jobs.  You can try bulldozing some businesses in order to even the number out and get more consistant freight numbers (I have no hard data, but less unfilled jobs = higher revenue from industrial taxes).

 

There's a lot more number crunching to see in there but I think Maxis' take was that it didn't want to burden you in the "late game" with dedicating half of your map to industrial development.  Basically your city can start out with a significant industrial sector, and keep scaling it back to suit your needs.  I wouldn't say you're wrong in that the game isn't broken in some places, but this could be what's happening in your particular situation.

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nothing is broken with the game in this area.  people just want instant gratification and start ploping parks and other high wealth value boosters to make their residential to expand into condos and high-rises.  Have you ever seen a city with purely high value residential zones?  Nope.  So don't try to make one.  Zone residential area close to industrial area, only use basic low wealth parks there (if you even need them), normally you don't need them if you zone small patches of commercial where they can buy some happiness.  This way, they will expand slowly, but eventually they will become nice tall apartment buildings.  Most important is that they will stay low wealth and will supply your industry with workers.  Avoid any land value boosters unless you have really bad land value due to some kind of building (waste processing plan for example or a mine).  On another hand, if you strive to make all your city high wealth, you will win on taxes short term (not by much considering how much services and parks cost to maintain it), but then you will loose precisely in the form you are describing long term as your city will start shutting down.

 

If you click on population number on the bottom of the screen and then go to details, it will show you exact breakdown of jobs available and unemployment for each wealth level.  As well it will show you numbers for goods sold (needed by commercial in form of freight produced by industry).  That little screen has pretty much 99% of information you need to balance your city.

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nothing is broken with the game in this area.  people just want instant gratification and start ploping parks and other high wealth value boosters to make their residential to expand into condos and high-rises.  Have you ever seen a city with purely high value residential zones?  Nope.  So don't try to make one.  Zone residential area close to industrial area, only use basic low wealth parks there (if you even need them), normally you don't need them if you zone small patches of commercial where they can buy some happiness.  This way, they will expand slowly, but eventually they will become nice tall apartment buildings.  Most important is that they will stay low wealth and will supply your industry with workers.  Avoid any land value boosters unless you have really bad land value due to some kind of building (waste processing plan for example or a mine).  On another hand, if you strive to make all your city high wealth, you will win on taxes short term (not by much considering how much services and parks cost to maintain it), but then you will loose precisely in the form you are describing long term as your city will start shutting down.

 

If you click on population number on the bottom of the screen and then go to details, it will show you exact breakdown of jobs available and unemployment for each wealth level.  As well it will show you numbers for goods sold (needed by commercial in form of freight produced by industry).  That little screen has pretty much 99% of information you need to balance your city.

The game was seriously broken in March of this year.  It is a lot beter now, but I had to stop playing several times because the glassbox simulator and the agents had serious routing issues.  Not to mention things like garbage trucks, and buses just completely breaking a city at the time.  It is definitely a lot better simulator now.  If you didn't have the displeasure of playing right after release and through a few of the first patches, you have no idea how bad things were back then.

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I'll close this since the last reply was from back in March, shortly after the game's release.

Some of these issues have been improved in the various patches released. So discussing them now is really no longer relevant.

Thanks.

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