Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Nielsen

R$ high rises abandon due to commute time

Recommended Posts

Here's something I don't understand. I have a row of R$ high density buildings that abandon on and off due to commute time. I make sure to respond to demand for C$ and ID but the sims won't go there, even if I place the jobs next door. What's even more weird, after having zoned for more commercial and industry, demand for R$ goes up but due to commute time they just don't settle in the existing R$ high density buildings. I have NAM and the roads to the jobs are not even too congested, and I even tried placing public transport. They did use that but mostly to go working in dirty industry in the neighbouring city. Why don't they take similar jobs in their own city that are located closer to their home? It's the first time I'm having this problem with NAM version 30. Is there some other factor that I'm overlooking? There's well funded power, water, ground school, health, fire, and police coverage but who cares when it's due to commute time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

could it be because you're using NAM 30 and not NAM 31?  i'm not an expert, so i don't know how much of a difference the new version would make, but that was the first thing i thought of after reading your post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

About subways, this city is in its early stages and only has 30.000 inhabitants. I can try adding subways but only to see if it changes anything. It would seem like an exaggerated solution for such a small city. I have also noticed that the commuters from the neighbouring city take an irrational route to their jobs. Specifically, they enter a highway that goes through their shortest route, thereby taking a big detour through two other tiles before reaching their destination. I can tell that this is the case because the two other tiles have no commuters to the city in question. In other words, I actually have two issues that NAM is supposed to address. I decided to install the NAM 30 hotfix but to no avail and, as I'm not used to these issues, I do not think the problems are directly related to NAM version 30. However, I wonder if the NAM simulator could be affected by something else? There are no other mods in my plugins folder that have anything to do with traffic simulation.

I have had other questionable issues with this region. At first, stage 3 farms did not develop naturally in accordance with agricultural threshold, and now these commute time problems. The only unreasonable thing I have done to this region is that I initially created a default map from within the game. Then I built a small region, consisting of 6 interconnected cities, in which I tested some different mods and gameplay elements. Eventually, I deleted all the cities and later I edited the same region map in Microsoft Paint, i.e. overwriting the default map layout with blue colour in order to get large tiles on the entire map. After this, I started new cities on the same map, again for testing purposes, and that's the one I currently struggle with. Is it possible that these radical actions might have corrupted this region, thus affecting how the game works? I'm clutching at straws but I can try the subways.

 

---

How is your public transit? If you haven't, try adding some subways.


Alright, I placed a few subway stations and it actually helped. Why is that the case? As mentioned in the OP, I tried placing some bus stops, but they seemed to take my sims out of town. I'm baffled that these high density sims don't just walk or drive, not to mention take the bus, when the jobs are within close reach. I have never had this issue, even in cities with more than 100.000 sims.
 

---

Merged double post, please use the edit-button in the future!

-timmie


  Edited by timmie

double post

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The sim's pathing is not so good in the vanilla version.  I do not have problems like this any more due to the NAM(Network ADD-on Mod).  This sort of thing is all too common in the unmodded version of the game.  The sim's just aren't smart.  No, it does not make sense.  It is easily fixed though by downloading and installing the NAM.  If you do not have it already, I can assure you you will not regret it.  Having the NAM there does not feel like cheating at all.  I thought it sounded like the NAM would make the game too easy at first, thought it would feel like cheating, however, from the moment I installed it I found the sim's did not so much as take off on their own, they more like began to think logically.  Taking the best route to get places, like taking an avenue instead of a street parallel to the avenue.  Things like that!  More people taking buses, more people taking trains and walking, all things that you would think they should do anyway but don't.  I mean, what city anywhere has a subway and a population only about 30k people?  None that I know of.  Give them a train though and they should be good.  Sadly without the NAM, you run into situations like that where you pretty much have to give them a subway, which when your city is in it's infancy, can be rather expensive.

 

I strongly suggest you get the NAM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The sim's pathing is not so good in the vanilla version. I do not have problems like this any more due to the NAM(Network ADD-on Mod). This sort of thing is all too common in the unmodded version of the game. The sim's just aren't smart. No, it does not make sense. It is easily fixed though by downloading and installing the NAM. If you do not have it already, I can assure you you will not regret it. Having the NAM there does not feel like cheating at all. I thought it sounded like the NAM would make the game too easy at first, thought it would feel like cheating, however, from the moment I installed it I found the sim's did not so much as take off on their own, they more like began to think logically. Taking the best route to get places, like taking an avenue instead of a street parallel to the avenue. Things like that! More people taking buses, more people taking trains and walking, all things that you would think they should do anyway but don't. I mean, what city anywhere has a subway and a population only about 30k people? None that I know of. Give them a train though and they should be good. Sadly without the NAM, you run into situations like that where you pretty much have to give them a subway, which when your city is in it's infancy, can be rather expensive.

I strongly suggest you get the NAM.

As mentioned several times, I do have the NAM but something tells me my install is not working properly anymore.

Another weird issue I just came across. I have one city that has about 3.500 car commuters going into the neigbouring city. In the other city, only 780 commuters from the first mentioned city actually enter. Where are the remaing 2.700 car commuters? Furthermore, the 780 car commuters that I do see entering go to work in an industrial area that is farther away than similar industrial zones in their own city. In other words, they commute a distance , which is greater than necessary, and, for no good reason, add to congestion in the other city. Is this another indication that my NAM traffic simulator installation is having a problem? I wouldn't call this a case of proper pathfinding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Idk dude. I just installed NAM v30 last week and it cleared up all my NJZ and routing issues. Maybe try uninstalling nam then reinstall it... I've also heard other mods can mess with nam do make sure whatever you have is compatible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Idk dude. I just installed NAM v30 last week and it cleared up all my NJZ and routing issues. Maybe try uninstalling nam then reinstall it... I've also heard other mods can mess with nam do make sure whatever you have is compatible.

That's what I might just do. I have removed the mods that I do not normally use but it has not solved the issues. I wonder if some other mod could have left a permanent mark on NAM, even after being removed from my plugins. I'm not really a genious when it comes to these game files so every possible clue is welcome. First, I'll reinstall NAM and maybe even then entire game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

could it be because you're using NAM 30 and not NAM 31?  i'm not an expert, so i don't know how much of a difference the new version would make, but that was the first thing i thought of after reading your post.

 

It wouldn't make any difference at all in a situation like this.  The NAM traffic simulator basically hasn't changed.  What Nielsen is describing sounds very much like some other traffic simulator is overriding the NAM.

 

I wonder if some other mod could have left a permanent mark on NAM, even after being removed from my plugins.

 

No, this is not possible.

 

First, I would suggest that you make sure that your NAM traffic simulator is still intact - that it hasn't been accidentally deleted, in which case the basic Maxis simulator would be operative.  In your NAM folder, make sure you have a file that starts with "NetworkAddonMod_Traffic_Plugin_Z_".  If you don't, reinstall the NAM.  If you do, by far the most likely explanation is that something is conflicting with the NAM traffic simulator.  The NAM simulator simply doesn't behave the way you describe.

 

Temporarily empty your plugins folder of everything except the NAM, and then try starting a new city.  If that works fine, then the problem is in one of your plugins.  Use the method described in to find it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If your town is small, you don't always need subways. I'm a big fan of above-ground railroads, especially if my city has a large industrial population. They're cheap, fast and high capacity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the others who have suggested a conflict.  Try the test suggested by z1.  Quickest way to do this is to rename your plugins folder to Plugins.old, create a new folder called Plugins and install the NAM (V30).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for your inputs so far, here's an update. I decided to start another region without doing any changes to my plugins. In this new region the commute time problems were seemingly non-existent. I know that this is the case because I later observed the unfortunate effect of uninstalling NAM, i.e. abandonment due to the commute time instantly became apparent. This made me wonder why my previous region did not seem to recognize NAM? Remember that I made no changes to my plugins prior to starting the new region, which manages to avoid abandonment due to commute time. Can the problem be related to the config.bitmat that contains the map info of the old region? As mentioned earlier, I did make manual changes to this file in Microsoft Paint after originally having created it from within the game.

 

Back to this new region, I still bump into a couple of things that puzzle me. In this region I have two relatively small cities, again with an uneven amount of car commuters between city A and city B. In city A, the number of car commuters going into city B is +800, from city B to city A the number of car commuters is roughly +3000. I compare the numbers by highlighting the very last road pieces, which singlehandedly connect both cities. Why such a big difference? The number of pedestrian commuters passing this connecting road is roughly similar in both cities.

 

Again, the commuters do travel longer than they need to. Why do they commute to distant jobs in a neighbouring city when there hardly are any commuters to similar jobs in their own city - jobs that obviously are within closer reach? I figured that it was a pathfinding issue so I decided to uninstall and reinstall NAM but the commute numbers still don't match between the two cities, and commuters still go farther than they need to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Commuters travel to where they can get a job.  The only thing that is known by the system when a given city is running and there is a neighbour connection is that there are some jobs across the boundary.  The number and/or type is unknown in the exporting city.  The number of commuters out of city indicates the number of Sims who didn't find a suitable job close enough at home.

 

Put toll gates on your connections and you will jack up your revenue, and slightly discourage the border commuters (not much).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In city A, the number of car commuters going into city B is +800, from city B to city A the number of car commuters is roughly +3000. I compare the numbers by highlighting the very last road pieces, which singlehandedly connect both cities. Why such a big difference? The number of pedestrian commuters passing this connecting road is roughly similar in both cities.

 

I think I formulated this in an inappropriate way. I meant to say is that the numbers don't match on the final road piece in each city. In one city, the number is more than 3000 car commuters, in another city the number is roughly 800. Where did the remaining 2.200 commuters go? It seems that they simply disappear. Am I misunderstanding what these numbers tell?

 

Commuters travel to where they can get a job.  The only thing that is known by the system when a given city is running and there is a neighbour connection is that there are some jobs across the boundary.  The number and/or type is unknown in the exporting city.  The number of commuters out of city indicates the number of Sims who didn't find a suitable job close enough at home.

 

That's what I believe too, so why don't they take the jobs in their own city? As indicated in my previous post, there nothing in the other city that their own city can't fulfill, yet they commute much longer. They go to the other city for jobs in dirty industry but their own neigbourhood is bordered by similar and plenty dirty industries. There's no manufacturing or high tech industry in neither of these two cities. While that could explain it, this is a pretty straightforward scenario that doesn't make sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems like 800 sims are going from cityA to cityB to work where as 3000 sims are going from cityB to cityA for employment if I'm reading it correctly and if I am what's the deal? In real life many peeps work and live in different cities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Put toll gates on your connections and you will jack up your revenue, and slightly discourage the border commuters (not much).

 

Minor point:  Toll gates will not discourage border commuters at all.  Their destination is set by the destination finder part of the traffic simulator, which pays no attention to possible routes, speed of those routes, or cost of those routes.  But since toll gates slow down traffic, when the pathfinder's time to run comes, it may try to plot a route around them.  Nevertheless, it will get the Sims to the border one way or another, because that's what the destination finder told it to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow!  I didn't know the commute effect to a toll plaza was zero.  Should cause a lengthening of the time, even a little.  Mind you, I use Goldiva's automatic gates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems like 800 sims are going from cityA to cityB to work where as 3000 sims are going from cityB to cityA for employment if I'm reading it correctly and if I am what's the deal? In real life many peeps work and live in different cities.

I just don't understand how my car commuters disappear. See the pictures below.

City A:

Untitled1.jpg

City B:

Untitled2.jpg

As you can see, the pedestrian numbers are almost the same in the two cities. However, the number of car commuters is extremely uneven. Even the number of freight trucks doesn't match. Am I reading the numbers wrong? The impression I get is that a lot of commuters get lost between the two cities, hence the uneven numbers. The two screenshots above show the exact same road connection.

Concerning pathfinding, I took a final picture to illustrate why I don't understand the simulation.

region.jpg

The green circle shows a high density residential area. The yellow circles show two industrial zones that are occupied by dirty industry only. The industrial stage levels may vary between the two cities but that shouldn't make a difference for commuters, right? As indicated by the red line, the commuters travel farther than necessary. Shouldn't NAM pathfinding prevent this? Furthermore, I added some agriculture along the way but they still insist to go working as far from home as they possibly can. The industrial area in city B hardly has any commuters at all, mostly freight trucks. Can this be explained?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just don't understand how my car commuters disappear. See the pictures below.

 

Did you run both cities alternately many times?  Each city is in its own time frame, so it's often hard to get the numbers to match up.  It's only a problem when a discrepancy persists after many switches.

 

Concerning pathfinding, I took a final picture to illustrate why I don't understand the simulation.

region.jpg

The green circle shows a high density residential area. The yellow circles show two industrial zones that are occupied by dirty industry only. The industrial stage levels may vary between the two cities but that shouldn't make a difference for commuters, right? As indicated by the red line, the commuters travel farther than necessary. Shouldn't NAM pathfinding prevent this? Furthermore, I added some agriculture along the way but they still insist to go working as far from home as they possibly can. The industrial area in city B hardly has any commuters at all, mostly freight trucks. Can this be explained?

Sure!  The traffic simulator is doing exactly what it's advertised to do.  When City B is running, the simulator has no idea of where the jobs in City A are - just that they exist.  The game defines reaching the border as the same as reaching a job.  Since the border is closer to the Sims than the yellow circle in City B, that's where they go.

 

We have no control over this.

 

As why they don't go work at the farms, well, maybe they don't like farming.  Specifically, if their wealth and education levels aren't suited for farming, they just won't work there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you run both cities alternately many times?  Each city is in its own time frame, so it's often hard to get the numbers to match up.  It's only a problem when a discrepancy persists after many switches.

Sure!  The traffic simulator is doing exactly what it's advertised to do.  When City B is running, the simulator has no idea of where the jobs in City A are - just that they exist.  The game defines reaching the border as the same as reaching a job.  Since the border is closer to the Sims than the yellow circle in City B, that's where they go.

 

We have no control over this.

 

As why they don't go work at the farms, well, maybe they don't like farming.  Specifically, if their wealth and education levels aren't suited for farming, they just won't work there.

 

I may have switched between the two cities many times although it's still weird that the number of pedestrians match up while the others don't. Also, good to know that city borders attract commuters, I guess it makes sense then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure! The traffic simulator is doing exactly what it's advertised to do. When City B is running, the simulator has no idea of where the jobs in City A are - just that they exist. The game defines reaching the border as the same as reaching a job. Since the border is closer to the Sims than the yellow circle in City B, that's where they go.

We have no control

If city A has been simulated for 10 years with 3000 jobs, and city B has been simulated for 3 years, does city B register 3000 jobs in city A?

Or does it possibly register # jobs in City A when it was in its 3rd year?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If city A has been simulated for 10 years with 3000 jobs, and city B has been simulated for 3 years, does city B register 3000 jobs in city A?

 

Yes, although actually it extrapolates a bit from those 3000 and ends up with a somewhat higher number.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an Account  

Sign up to join our friendly community. It's easy!  :thumb:

Register a New Account

Sign In  

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×