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Ebolarama

Does Region Population Mean Anything?

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Hello everyone, I bought sim city 5 it just crashes and I had the itch so I got sim city 4 and I am now hooked.

With that said its been about a week since I started playing I've failed countless times and started over. I know think I have a good system going and finally not losing money.

Ive googled my question and looked on her some but didnt find it.

I was wondering when you want to build a city with skyscrapers and all of that. I read you have to have atleast 100,000 in population. Does Region populations count?

 

Heres what I have going on now.  I have one small map to the side that im using neighbor deals and using as dirty and manufacturing industry. Then I have one big map that is my residential area.  And just recently  expanded north and have some suburbs with manufacturing industry only.

 

But Im saving the waterfront map for my city. Since I have all of this going on will I be able to start a city right away or will I need to start small and work up again? I sure hope thats not the case.

 

Thanks!

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The relationship between building stages and population is somewhat complex (the site hosting the tutorial is currently offline), but yes, the size of buildings that will grow is based on your total regional population.

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More specifically, the stages are dependant on the total population for each wealth class. (IIRC) If you build tons of R$ population, you'll soon see R$ apartment towers start to grow (provided you zone high density) pretty quickly...but it will be awhile longer before you start seeing R$$ and R$$$ towers growing.

 

The total population gives you a really rough estimate. It is more of just a feeling of accomplishment. Hitting that 1 million mark for the first time feels good.

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Welcome to Simtropolis

 

With sc4 you have to work on a regional basis to do what you want.  Make sure you have at least one road neighbour connection and the demand spreads across the connected cities.  With the demand chart in mind, you can zone whatever the demands are, and you should get what you need.  However, each city is pretty independent, so you should also build your population to at least 80,000 if you want stage 8 buildings (no CAM).

 

If you have the NAM, that's enough for new players.  CAM is such a colossal thing that some play experience is really needed before doubling the scope of the game.  It has several things to understand and some incompatibilities to beware of.

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Does Region populations count?

 

The info by Rippeljet is very informative.  Keep in mind though, region population counts only if all your cities are connected.  If you open a city tile that has no transportation connection, then it will act as if you are starting a new region.  You can take advantage of this if you want to start a small town away from your metropolis, since you will not be able to grow high rises until the requited Com or Res populations are reached (in that city tile).  

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Demand (for all RCI building types and wealth levels) is "extrapolated" through cities, which means that you can take the demand generated from one city tile, and "satisfy" it (cause development) in another one.

 

Many members have claimed that the growth-stage mix (the percentage of small/medium/large buldings, as a function of the RCI population size) is based on calculations taking into account the total (regional) instead of the city size. This would mean that you could have small houses covering some city tiles entirely, some others with condos, and some few with hirises only. However, to my opinion this appears to rather not be the case. The region I'm developing "lately" (duh, in the last couple of years actually, can't play more than 1-2 hrs a week) has 9 medium-sized cities (10,000-100,000 res, many commercial jobs and no industry); some of the cities were developed based on their own feet only, some with the aid of demand extrapolated by another, larger city, ie with a lot of "external", injected demand, some others in a mixed manner). While there have been differences in the rate of growth (those with extrapolated demand grew faster), the pattern of buildings'/lots' development has been consistently the same. It was not possible to achieve hi- or even mid-rise development without having to go through the earlier growth stages first (always starting from 1 or 2), no matter the extra demand, and no matter the regional population (in the other cities) either. This was clearly evident, esp for R$$ development: at first I could only develop small R$$ houses (5-6 res), then some larger ones (10-12 res), and I had to develop an awful lot of such homes, before the simulator would grant me a small condo (ca 150 res); I had to develop at least 8-10 of them, before I could get a larger one (>200 res) - no matte the demand level - and then develop many many of these, before I could get a small hirise R$$. Again, this pattern has been the same, no matter the demand level and regional population size, even the last cities developed behaved exactly the same, ie the regional population appears to have had little or no effect.

 

So my experience with this region indicates that the growth-level mix is calculated based on the city rather than the regional population size. If anyone has examples of all-hirise or -midrise cities, please post.

 

I think that regional population has another effect though, it appears to determine the number of sims (in a given city) that can commute and work in other cities (or the opposite).

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Here's what RippleJet says about the growth stages; CAM is based on this too:

 

These properties determine the percentage chances that buildings of a certain growth stages will appear (depending on the size of your region).

The threshold values are regional, and separate for the Residential, Commercial and Industrial development (see below).
Note that you need to have neighbour connection, either by road or rail, in order to see the capacities in your surrounding region.

 

This is also my experience in many cities.  The key may be the last sentence here.  Is it possible that in the early stages of your new cities' growth, you didn't have a neighbor connection?  If so, then everything would be consistent here.

 

Also, from the Prima Guide:

 

NOTE


The population counts for stage limits are Regional and not limited to one city.  This allows you to build several Regional cities, start a new one, and have it develop high stage buildings if the stage limit thresholds have been collectively reached.

 

The boldface is in the original.

 

Although the Prima Guide is occasionally incorrect, RippleJet almost never is, and I've never seen the two of them agree on something that wasn't true.

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My current playing style takes advantage of this.  Even though most of my tiles are rural, I immediately set up a neighbour connection when I start a new city.  The spreading of the demand throughout the region really helps.  I start a new town in every tile as soon as feasible.

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Here's what RippleJet says about the growth stages; CAM is based on this too:

 

These properties determine the percentage chances that buildings of a certain growth stages will appear (depending on the size of your region).

The threshold values are regional, and separate for the Residential, Commercial and Industrial development (see below).

Note that you need to have neighbour connection, either by road or rail, in order to see the capacities in your surrounding region.

 

This is also my experience in many cities.  The key may be the last sentence here.  Is it possible that in the early stages of your new cities' growth, you didn't have a neighbor connection?  If so, then everything would be consistent here.

 

No, even the first city tile had a connection "to the SimNation" (it raises caps, although for a city of that size no caps apply actually), and then each city developed subsequently did have at least a road (usually an avenue) connection, to the original or another connected city, otherwise how could I have used extrapolated demand?

 

So my original question remains: Has anyone been able to grow, for example a 150 R$$ condo (let alone hirises) from the start (using demand extrapolated fron the region)? That is, without having to go through all growth stages? Can you develop a town of 4 small condos (and no small houses)? The demand is here, but not the development!

 

 

My current playing style takes advantage of this.  Even though most of my tiles are rural, I immediately set up a neighbour connection when I start a new city.  The spreading of the demand throughout the region really helps.  I start a new town in every tile as soon as feasible.

 

There is no question that demand spreads through the region, what we are discussing here is whether the growth stage mix (and transitions) is calculated based on the region or the city size.

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Well, a picture being worth a thousand words and everything...
 
lincolnpark.jpg

This is the entire city. Large buildings started to grow from the very beginning, as I have a large city developed right next to this one.

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Sorry, but I can't see how this pic proves that growth stage calculations are caried-out in a regional level. Your city has a significant hirise development, but has a lot of lower-stage development as well.

 

What puzzles me is why, despite the high regional population and injected R demand, the simulator would give me the stage-5 condos, and persistently refuse to give me the stage-6 ones, before I had at least 6 or 7 instances of the former.

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Sorry, but I can't see how this pic proves that growth stage calculations are caried-out in a regional level. Your city has a significant hirise development, but has a lot of lower-stage development as well.

 

What puzzles me is why, despite the high regional population and injected R demand, the simulator would give me the stage-5 condos, and persistently refuse to give me the stage-6 ones, before I had at least 6 or 7 instances of the former.

My bet would be low land value. With high land value and high demand you are going to get tall buildings. 

 

 

I have build cities with only small amount of residential, and I still get tall buildings. In fact it is often easier to get only tall buildings in those smaller cities. 

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I think the less spread out your CBD is, the higher the chance of tall buildings.  The important items are land value and traffic density.  I once did an experiment with a city in which I zoned only medium density and got it going without much trouble.  It had neighbours all around.

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