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nertskull

RCI super high, nothing is growing

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So I'm brand new to the sims world.  But I got SimCity 4 last week and started playing and it was fun.  Then I decided to try some mods.  So I installed SPAM, NAM, and CAM.  Things were good until I installed CAM.  I had super high RCI, but then  I installed the double work bug fix for it. Now RCI is still high, but not off the charts high.

 

BUT, no one moves in.  I have a city right now that has plenty of water, fire, police, health.  I have lots of education.  I have green desirability for basically everything.  My RCI for residential is high (R$-24,000 R$$-17,000 R$$$-6,000) and I have only hit 3%, 1% and 0% of my caps for residential.  I have 7x7 residential lots with at least one park square on each, most have 2 or 3.  Everyone is healthy and happy, my mayor rating is one bar short of full.  There is no traffic problems, plenty of power and garbage disposal.

 

BUT, no one moves in.  I have high density residential zones that have single family housing on them.  And I let it run over night and it never upgrades to any sort of apartment building.  I'm not looking for towering sky scrapers, but I'd like to at least have some upwards growth.  The only way I can get people to move in is to keep expanding outwards and building more areas for new zones.

 

So I thought, allright, maybe its like a real city where it expands out before it goes up.  So I started a new city on a smaller lot.  And ran through the motions again.  I filled up almost the entire city section with housing, industry, farms and office space.  Again, no growth up.  I can't expand any further out.  I have lots of areas of low medium and high density residential.  But again, all of them are single homes.  My RCI is through the roof for basically everything.

 

So what am I doing wrong??  Did I install CAM wrong?  I don't have any brown packages, but the CAM counter definitely has industry using CAMeLots (although I have zero residential and office don't use CAMeLots yet).

 

I'm getting frustrated that I can't make the simplest apartment complexes.  I'm hoping someone can guide me to what I may be missing. 

 

Thanks all.  Like I said, I've only been playing a week, so I'm probably missing something.

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A smaller city section does not mean people will live more dense. You need to get a high population before people will live more dense. In my opinion it is too easy to make dense cities.

 

If nothing is growing, but RCI demand is high then this is likely due to

1. Your city is small OR

2. You do not provide water. 

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So I have everything drenched in water.  So I can't see that being a problem.  My water is through the roof.

 

My city size however is small.  Its only got 9,000 people in it.  But that's the problem.  I can't grow out any more, because there is no land.  But it won't grow up either.  So it seems like circular logic.  The city won't grow dense until it has a high population.  But how can it have a high population if it won't grow dense and there is no land left?

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Things were good until I installed CAM.

That's pretty much the problem: You installed CAM, then played it on an already-built city.

There's a Manual included for the CAM (which I advise you read, also found here: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1877.0 ), but the main part is that using the CAM is best done on a newly-created region.

Also, there is an inherent incompatibility with the SPAM if you're trying to use it with conjunction with the CAM and the NAM:

- The SPAM modifies the agricultural aspect of the game, which also modifies and conflicts with the very same aspect that the CAM modifies.

- The SPAM contains a traffic simulator that is completely incompatible with the NAM. (Luckily, this is an optional plugin, which can be safely removed.)

Luckily still, the NAM and CAM were made to play together, but it takes a lot of finagling to get the SPAM to be friendly with the CAM.

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Don't worry about your small city without high density. It's time to create a neighbouring city on a bigger tile. The new city will still thrive on the things you did in the first city so you are not really starting over. The cities you create contribute to the bigger picture that is region play.

Edit: And as stressed above, be careful with adding CAM to an existing city.

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make sure you have applied the bug workforce fix correctly and remove the colossus ad mod dat.

if all else doesn not work try to reorder your plugins folder if you havent already. its very important to know you dont have any duplicate folders lying around. also check for mods that conflict with cam. i had many problems too with cam. untill i spend some 3 days rearranging my plugins folder. removing al duplicates and all ploppable buildings from my menu.also give it a neat folder structure  and my cam works now even better.

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Radical mods like the CAM are best utilized and give best results on new tiles. As far as I can tell, I'd need more info to know if you installed properly. I do run CAM and SPAM, it's taken me some time to get used to it, but it's my bag baby!! : ) Hehe

Anyways, you said you installed the workforce bug fix, well, there is a IHT workforce bug fix, and there is a way of datpacking the CAM into the game files, that eliminates the workforce double count bug within the CAM. To do them properly, you should datpack both the CAM.dat (make sure you put a z_ in front of it so it load last) and the IHT fix. Now, fair warning, if you've played with the super high demands without datpacking the CAM, it's like super duper easy mode, its just grows 2-3 times too much commercial. If you combine the CAM right and load the SPAM afterwards, since the SPAM changes the industrial demands, and impact of education on IR, you'll want it after the CAM, otherwise, why even download and install the SPAM, right? : )

Ok, with the modified gameplay of the SPAM running, you need to develop small and slow, you need to eat up some agriculture demand and transition into high density around 100,000 region population. And there will be some times of recession and economical boom, especially if you are not very careful to balance your growth. I've been known to get frustrated trying to settle demand, zone a large decent area of that zone type, and have a population explosion, get 50,000 new residents, but lose over half because I didn't build enough jobs for them... It's very tricky, and can be difficult at times, but the CAM/SPAM setup will give you not only a decent challenge of your civil engineering skills, but also tends to support a very natural growth building style to the game.

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make sure you have applied the bug workforce fix correctly and remove the colossus ad mod dat.

if all else doesn not work try to reorder your plugins folder if you havent already. its very important to know you dont have any duplicate folders lying around. also check for mods that conflict with cam. i had many problems too with cam. untill i spend some 3 days rearranging my plugins folder. removing al duplicates and all ploppable buildings from my menu.also give it a neat folder structure  and my cam works now even better.

if you remove the CAM.dat file you remove the CAM basically, all that would be left would be the traffic simulator, which I hope you didn't install, use the NAM's... And the other thing would be the workforce changes in the Z_CAM folder, but they aren't going to do much in the game without the CAM if you installed them as well.

As far as duplicate folders, it won't hurt you're gameplay, just increase load times as it loads another file it's already loaded.

Not too many conflicts with the CAM, but remember it's a mod that changes the demand levels and such in the game. If you use an industry doubler, or a radical demand mod, they're both trying to do the same task and no wonder you'll have a conflict. It's like installing 2 terrain mods, you can only see 1 terrain, so why try and see 2? That's is when you'll have a conflict.

Otherwise, just becareful to download CAMpatible buildings, as they have the values the CAM looks for when selecting a building, if they don't have the X-Tool values, the game will load the file, but not use it, just eats up more processing power...

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So first off, a few have mentioned starting a new region.  Which I did do.  After I installed CAM I started over on a completely new region.  So I don't think that's the problem.

 

That's pretty much the problem: You installed CAM, then played it on an already-built city.


There's a Manual included for the CAM (which I advise you read, also found here: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1877.0 ), but the main part is that using the CAM is best done on a newly-created region.

Also, there is an inherent incompatibility with the SPAM if you're trying to use it with conjunction with the CAM and the NAM:
- The SPAM modifies the agricultural aspect of the game, which also modifies and conflicts with the very same aspect that the CAM modifies.
- The SPAM contains a traffic simulator that is completely incompatible with the NAM. (Luckily, this is an optional plugin, which can be safely removed.)

Luckily still, the NAM and CAM were made to play together, but it takes a lot of finagling to get the SPAM to be friendly with the CAM.

 

I'll have to look more into SPAM and CAM together.  I didn't realize they might be a problem together.  So perhaps that is it.  I thought I saw a lot of other people saying they had them working together though.  I guess I'll have to read more about.

 

Also, I did not install the traffic stuff from SPAM, I have only installed the NAM traffic stuff.

 

Don't worry about your small city without high density. It's time to create a neighbouring city on a bigger tile. The new city will still thrive on the things you did in the first city so you are not really starting over. The cities you create contribute to the bigger picture that is region play.

Edit: And as stressed above, be careful with adding CAM to an existing city.

 

I think I will try that next.  Try a neighboring city and see what happens there. 

 

make sure you have applied the bug workforce fix correctly and remove the colossus ad mod dat.

if all else doesn not work try to reorder your plugins folder if you havent already. its very important to know you dont have any duplicate folders lying around. also check for mods that conflict with cam. i had many problems too with cam. untill i spend some 3 days rearranging my plugins folder. removing al duplicates and all ploppable buildings from my menu.also give it a neat folder structure  and my cam works now even better.

 

I tried to follow the directions exactly, I'm fairly computer savvy, so I'm pretty sure I installed the bug fix correctly.  I'll play around in the plugins folder and make sure it doesn't seem wacky.

 

Radical mods like the CAM are best utilized and give best results on new tiles. As far as I can tell, I'd need more info to know if you installed properly. I do run CAM and SPAM, it's taken me some time to get used to it, but it's my bag baby!! : ) Hehe

Anyways, you said you installed the workforce bug fix, well, there is a IHT workforce bug fix, and there is a way of datpacking the CAM into the game files, that eliminates the workforce double count bug within the CAM. To do them properly, you should datpack both the CAM.dat (make sure you put a z_ in front of it so it load last) and the IHT fix. Now, fair warning, if you've played with the super high demands without datpacking the CAM, it's like super duper easy mode, its just grows 2-3 times too much commercial. If you combine the CAM right and load the SPAM afterwards, since the SPAM changes the industrial demands, and impact of education on IR, you'll want it after the CAM, otherwise, why even download and install the SPAM, right? : )

Ok, with the modified gameplay of the SPAM running, you need to develop small and slow, you need to eat up some agriculture demand and transition into high density around 100,000 region population. And there will be some times of recession and economical boom, especially if you are not very careful to balance your growth. I've been known to get frustrated trying to settle demand, zone a large decent area of that zone type, and have a population explosion, get 50,000 new residents, but lose over half because I didn't build enough jobs for them... It's very tricky, and can be difficult at times, but the CAM/SPAM setup will give you not only a decent challenge of your civil engineering skills, but also tends to support a very natural growth building style to the game.

 

I think this MIGHT be the problem.  My first game I went way slow on.  This one I may be trying to build up too fast.  I didn't really feel like it was super fast, but I've been going back to change some of the high density stuff to low density for a bit to see if that helps.  I've gotten the city to 10,000 now, so maybe that has something to do with it.  I guess I'm not sure I fully understood CAM.  I thought it was to help get large cities quickly, but the more I read it seems its more about getting large cities slowly, like in real life.  Which is good, I enjoy the challenge.

 

make sure you have applied the bug workforce fix correctly and remove the colossus ad mod dat.

if all else doesn not work try to reorder your plugins folder if you havent already. its very important to know you dont have any duplicate folders lying around. also check for mods that conflict with cam. i had many problems too with cam. untill i spend some 3 days rearranging my plugins folder. removing al duplicates and all ploppable buildings from my menu.also give it a neat folder structure  and my cam works now even better.

if you remove the CAM.dat file you remove the CAM basically, all that would be left would be the traffic simulator, which I hope you didn't install, use the NAM's... And the other thing would be the workforce changes in the Z_CAM folder, but they aren't going to do much in the game without the CAM if you installed them as well.

As far as duplicate folders, it won't hurt you're gameplay, just increase load times as it loads another file it's already loaded.

Not too many conflicts with the CAM, but remember it's a mod that changes the demand levels and such in the game. If you use an industry doubler, or a radical demand mod, they're both trying to do the same task and no wonder you'll have a conflict. It's like installing 2 terrain mods, you can only see 1 terrain, so why try and see 2? That's is when you'll have a conflict.

Otherwise, just becareful to download CAMpatible buildings, as they have the values the CAM looks for when selecting a building, if they don't have the X-Tool values, the game will load the file, but not use it, just eats up more processing power...

I'm not using any other mods other than CAM, NAM and SPAM.  So I don't think I have conflicts.

 

But I haven't downloaded any buildings yet.  Is that a problem?  I've just basically downloaded the starter packs in the first post here http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2039.0 

 

And then I downloaded the dependencies all listed here http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1890.0

 

But that's it.  I haven't downloaded anything else and installed it.  I assumed that was enough to get me going?  Do I need to download individual buildings?  

 

I think its getting better, but I'm 67 years in and just barely over 10,000 in population.  I feel like I have to be doing something wrong.

 

Thanks everyone for the help.

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make sure you have applied the bug workforce fix correctly and remove the colossus ad mod dat.

if all else doesn not work try to reorder your plugins folder if you havent already. its very important to know you dont have any duplicate folders lying around. also check for mods that conflict with cam. i had many problems too with cam. untill i spend some 3 days rearranging my plugins folder. removing al duplicates and all ploppable buildings from my menu.also give it a neat folder structure  and my cam works now even better.

if you remove the CAM.dat file you remove the CAM basically,

 

  • Delete the SimCity_1 subfolder that you created in your plugins folder
  • Delete the ColossusAddonMod_1.0.dat file in the a_CAM subfolder

thats what i mean it clearly said in the instructions. the cam.dat is datpacked into simcity_1.dat so you will still have cam.

 

but the problem might be more the spam and cam compatible thing.

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Well, your high density won't develop until about 24,000 population, but CAM uses regional population for it's growth stages. It's not a mod that grows cities quicker, it's a mod that doubles the game's infrastructure basically.

Normally there are 1-8 stages of growth for R, CO, CS, and 4-5 stages for industry(Can't remember for sure, been CAMmin for years now). CAM makes it 15 stages of growth for R, CS, CO. and 7 stages for Industry. Now since I run SPAM, I only have 5 levels, so any stage 6 and 7 lots, I can't use, but it's a preference for the region style play I enjoy. Allows for a developed agriculture areas, In normal SC4, buildings grow maybe 180 meters tall, but with CAM you have a natural growth of over 500 meters tall. But, to get to the upper stages, you need a region population of 1.5-1.6 million. But, if you don't datpack the CAM.dat file, you can grow quickly but not realistically, you'll have 2-3 times the employment, but it's weird because you'll notice R$$ move in way quicker than normal, but it gets hinky, especially when the simulation is running the translation of your industry to IHT. You have to really pay attention to what kind of sims are moving in, you can zone all 3 densities, but get only 1 wealth type. That is where many people run into issues... Read this about demand census, pay attention to the different percentages needed in the workforce, not all your sims can be R$$$. You need a really good mix of R$, and R$$ and a 10-15% R$$$ population

 

http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=963.0

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make sure you have applied the bug workforce fix correctly and remove the colossus ad mod dat.

if all else doesn not work try to reorder your plugins folder if you havent already. its very important to know you dont have any duplicate folders lying around. also check for mods that conflict with cam. i had many problems too with cam. untill i spend some 3 days rearranging my plugins folder. removing al duplicates and all ploppable buildings from my menu.also give it a neat folder structure  and my cam works now even better.

if you remove the CAM.dat file you remove the CAM basically,

 

  • Delete the SimCity_1 subfolder that you created in your plugins folder
  • Delete the ColossusAddonMod_1.0.dat file in the a_CAM subfolder

thats what i mean it clearly said in the instructions. the cam.dat is datpacked into simcity_1.dat so you will still have cam.

 

but the problem might be more the spam and cam compatible thing.

Also, don't forget to put a z_ before the file name of the ColossusAddonMod.dat

It will look like this in your simcity1 folder to dat pack:

 

SimCity_1.dat

z_ColossusAddonMod_1.0.dat

 

This will cause the game to load the CAM parameters over the in game ones. If you don't it will load the CAM first because it comes before simcity1.dat alphabetically.

I forgot to do this when I first datpacked and it did not solve the double workforce bug until I placed the z before the filename

And while you're at it, it would help to pack the IHT fix, because without it, as your cities translate to IHT in your industrial areas, a rounding error will occur because of the 10% R$$$ sims in IHT, this fix will move it to 12%, eliminating the error, and allowing you to build to the higher stages.

 

My folder looks like this:

 

SimCity_1.dat

z_ColossusAddonMod_1.0.dat

z_IH_census_10_78_12.dat

 

Once I made a new simcity1.dat file, everything is much more balanced and realistic. 2:1 population to jobs

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You are running too fast for a new player.  Move CAM out, and save it for later.  You probably don't know why you picked CAM, but it is really for experienced players who want a larger game.

 

NAM is a must.  SPAM is totally optional, but I do recommend it, without its controller.

 

These two plugins will introduce enough complications in your life without having to cope with CAM which takes you totally out of the box.

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Allright, I removed SPAM and things seem to be working slightly better.  Definitely different than without CAM, but I'm finally getting a population to go above 20 thousand. 

 

I definitely also need to work on regions more, which I kind of like.  Thanks all.

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